Stormzy AIBU

[MissChananderlerbong]

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

pa1oma

I read the fuss about the Boris, and couldn't think how I'd missed it. Then I realised I'd skipped past Vossy Bop and it was the line from that. Wasn't sure what the fuss was about given it's been no 1 so must have been on Radio 1. BUT the reason I skipped Vossy Bop was I don't like the lyrics about facials, and the context.

I like Stormzy but much prefer Dave. He's really insightful and his piano playing brings a certain something. I can't think of going on about 'facials', there's a line in "Purple Heart' about a girl giving head but it seems fine in the whole track. He does occasionally say bitches, but he says the N word a lot more about men. Stormzy does seem to go on about them a lot more generally.

Thank goodness Pa1oma can articulate what I want to say.

For what it’s worth I absolutely agree that white privilege exists and there is enormous colour bias. I live in the area that Stormzy grew up in and have kids and see it every day and on occasion have to challenge my own white privilege because it is so unintentionally ingrained. Maybe it is even present in the existence of this thread. But can’t we agree that even if that is the case, if the lyrics make other women feel crappy then there is possibly something amiss with them and it’s useful to have a discussion about that? Sure, go ahead and have consenting ‘facials’ but is it really necessary to normalise them in populist music? I don’t think so and I say that as a women who looks back on the sex I had in my youth and cringes because so much of it was led by peer pressure and I did things that I certainly wasn’t comfortable with.
I have no problems talking about sex openly at all Earlywalker. I’m a former sexual health nurse and actually I think that is vital and is why countries like Holland are so sexually healthy, but I still find the lyrics really distasteful and unhelpful. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me but I do think it’s important that people feel able to discuss it without being stamped down as expressing white privilege. Stormzy was previously called out for homophobic tweets he made and he apologised. If nobody had expressed a distaste for those tweets then maybe he would have seen no need to apologise. Maybe I’m wrong and he would’ve eventually realised of his own accord that calling gay people faggots wasn’t ok, but I do think it’s important that I am allowed to challenge views in the public domain that I don’t agree with.

Sorry I crossed posts with you pa1oma. You express your feelings perfectly.

Thankyou so much. Sorry I didn’t want to be all dramatic and “woe is me” but that just kind of came out. I’ll have to NC after this .

Pa1oma for you. I think he may well pay attention, you could try tweeting him if you have Twitter? Triggers are such personal things that it’s something that a lot of people don’t even consider but I know first hand how it can make you feel.

I think the fact that it’s consensual in the preceding lyrics getting freaky in the sheets, we’re taking body shots as in its mutual, to me, made it seem like less of an ‘attack on woman’ but I completely understand different things make people feel differently.

In general though, I think as a society we do need to get better at addressing things like racial bias and white privilege in all aspects without people feeling personally attacked.

It’s so tough to have these sort of conversations because no one likes to accuse anyone of racial bias and no one wants to be part of the collective feeling accused. But non the less, we shouldn’t shy away from difficult conversations.

You see Earlywalker I think it’s fine to address racial bias (sorry, aware I called it colour bias earlier and that’s wrong) and actually I don’t feel defensive at all, as you may actually be right. I just don’t think that then invalidates any discomfort I may have with the lyrics. I get that it appears to be consensual but it’s more that it normalises it.

I fully admit that there have been occasions in my life where I’ve been guilty of racial bias. It’s not something I’m proud of and I wouid never say I’m faultless in that respect. I try to to get complacent about these things. However, this is not one of those occasions. This is something different - for me at least, but I think also many other women who have responded.

Try not to get complacent!

@Pa1oma You're not solo in that

22 pages and still running- this thread has really made feel quite sad but I’m not as articulate (or quick at typing as others . After reading this I went back and watched Stormzy’s performance. Again I came away from it feeling moved- I love rap, hip-hop, R&B so I admit to my own bias and just wish that others could.
Yes the lyrics in Vossi Bop are quite gross but if I’d have been at Glastonbury and young again I’d have been singing along too. Not because I want some random man to jizz on my face but because of the power & energy of Stormzy’s performance in total.
I found Ballet Black beautiful and am going to look for stuff on them.
The children were fantastic- Princess K owned that stage . Stormzy has done so so much for his community and given so much more back that I just can’t get too worked up about it and Yes I do consider myself a feminist very much so.
He just can’t win for some people, people who freely admit they don’t know much about him. People have posted some great examples of his lyrics.
I can’t remember everybody’s names I’m sorry but @ VivienneHolt I think you’ve articulated much of what I think so thank you for your posts .
I’m going to bed now this thread is mental.

Op only read first page but yes it's utterly Vile .. It Doesn't cancel out the vileness to the most suppressed humans on the planet...women because he does 'good' in other areas ... Spike Lee lost me years ago... Brilliant film about race and racism... Very thought provoking and I took much away with me... However.. Repeated use of the word retard and refences to people with ld....

Made me feel sick.

think it’s fine to address racial bias (sorry, aware I called it colour bias earlier and that’s wrong)

The thing is though that colour bias is more what it is than "racial bias" since race isn't even a biologically/scientifically viable concept - it makes far more sense that we are one human race, the idea that there is a definable white race/black race/Asian race has been disproved, we are all one race with varying features based on evolution and genetics, but there's no much more we have in common than differences. Unfortunately we give the "race" concept validity as we treat it as a real thing. The concept of "race" needs to be phased out. We all have different coloured skin, even white people have varying shades of peach etc, so really we are discriminating against people based on their colour of skin (which we think determine this mythical "race" concept).

Quoting Eminem

I wasn't critiquing his lyrics, I love them. Doesn't matter if they are old.

would judge Eminem on his own lyrics. End of. No excuses.

No, I certaintly don't judge him negatively.

The thing is with the "facial" lyric - due to porn culture, that act HAS become normalised in society. Whether it should have been normalised or not is another matter.

The act itself is not intrinsically linked to forced oral sex (though I appreciate that people may have experienced that in that context. Paloma ).

Because it has been normalised, then lots of young people will see such acts as normal rather than degrading. Surely it is the intent of the man, in this instance, and Whether the act is consensual which determines whether it is degrading? If it is seen by young participants as "normal" then the intent to degrade may well not be there. The rights and wrongs of it being normalised are a different matter.

Sex itself isn't intrinsically degrading, yet rape is. Because context and consensuality are everything. I don't think we can judge young people as degrading each other, if the acts involved feel normal to them, however right or wrong that is.

The use of the word slut is misogynistic crap, but I think motivation, intent and even preceding "forced blowjobs" are being projected into the "facial" comment.

I do agree though that the "facial" comment is crude and crass.

Stormzy seems like a young man, trying to do his best, who has grown up in a misogynistic world where porn culture is now normalised. If he has internalized that, then it is to be expected - we understand when women have internalized misogyny, and don't expect them to be perfect. We see it as a fault of a patriarchal society rather than a failing of the individual.

Without wishing to patronize him, when Stormzy is older, he may well look back and see the misogyny in his lyrics. But for the moment, it seems he is processing his experiences about race and inequality via his music. He clearly does hold women in high regard, via his mother, and so chances are he will get there and recognise his misogynistic language. I do think people are expecting him to behave perfectly, at a relatively young age, and focusing on the stuff he falls short upon, rather than celebrating his achievements.

Eminem however, is simply a misogynistic arsehole!

@Pa1oma I don’t want to keep hammering home the point if this thread has become distressing to you, and I doubt I would say anything I haven’t already said anyway, so I’ll agree to just leave the debate where it stands. I don’t think we were going to reach common ground in any event. I’m sorry this had been upsetting to you, and I hope you’re alright.

No problem - it’s not about me anyway, though I was taken by surprise at how this has affected me. At my age too. Yes, I would just be repeating myself too, so I’ll leave it now. Many thanks.

"Stormzy seems like a young man, trying to do his best, who has grown up in a misogynistic world where porn culture is now normalised. If he has internalized that, then it is to be expected "

The fact that he is presented as this amazing role model prevents me from being able to just shrug and excuse his misogyny.

He is a supposedly intelligent person with a public platform. It's not good enough to just blame the culture.