Stormzy AIBU

[MissChananderlerbong]

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

@Pa1oma I just think it’s a shame for you to only focus on one form of misogyny and in the same breath defend another. But it’s up to you what you do! That said I think you’ve sailed bloody close to the wind with some of your comments about how black women should feel about black artists, which makes me think there’s a lot more racial bias in your comments than you’re willing to face up to.

What misogyny am I defending?

I have said nothing whatsoever about how black women should feel about anything? You’re either confusing me with someone else or trying too hard.

Sorry, you’re right, I confused you with Juells on the black women comments - my apologies.

But I think you are excusing the misogyny of artists like Ed Sheeran, on the basis that it appears to be less explicit. When I talk about examining racial bias, that’s what I mean - why do you think it is that one form is seen as more obvious / explicit / awful / upsetting than the other? Is it possibly that it’s because it’s more associated with black artists than white?

Let’s look at it in the context of actually causing harm to women. I don’t like the word slut and I’m not excusing the use of it. I think it contributes to slut-shaming, which is a damaging thing for women for many obvious reasons (including the way it feeds into rape culture).

But equally, Ed Sheeran’s brand of misogyny is part of a culture that has led to women actually being murdered because of the frustration of men who think they are entitled to women’s affection. The tropes found in Sheeran’s lyrics are very harmful, but they aren’t widely perceived as being so because of his clean, white, nice guy persona.

It’s not that there is anything inherently more harmful in calling a woman a slut than in implying that a woman owes you sex or love because you’re nice to her. Both are bad. And if you’re only expressing a problem with one, there’s a good chance that racial bias is playing into that.

@VivienneHolt I cannot express through words just how much you are on the money and my agreement with your comments.

Vivienne - I have no idea why you’re presenting me in your own mind as some kind of Ed Sheehan apologist or super-fan. I have no interest in him whatsoever. Dull as dishwater if anything. As I said, I’ve never taken the time to listen to his lyrics.

I was simply going on the one Ed Sheeran lyric someone posted earlier (maybe it was you)? which was something along the lines of - “Do you have a history of leading men on?” I said this is far more open to interpretation than the word “slut.” I also explained how I’m not offended by that lyric because equally I could imagine it used in a song sung by a woman about a man - “Do you have a history of leading women on.” The word “slut” does not apply to men and it’s misogynistic on every level.

I’m not sure why you’re drawing this particular comparison? Sure there are misogynistic comments made by white men all the time. Do you actually think this needs pointing out to me? But this thread was about Stormzy and his particular lyrics on the back of his performance yesterday, so that’s what people were focusing on. If Ed Sheehan had headlined yesterday with the same lyrics, I’d be saying exactly the same thing - obviously. I can’t explain this again.

Beautiful
#Stormzy

But this is exactly my point - this is thread about stormzy, and it’s the third thread about him (that I have seen) in a month. Why aren’t there threads about Ed Sheeran? Why does Ed Sheeran’s misogyny go under the radar? It’s not a coincidence. That is racial bias at play.

It’s not about whether you’re an Ed Sheeran superfan, or whether you care about him at all. You clearly aren’t a Stormzy superfan either. The point is I see no evidence of you asking yourself or other people why there are so many threads criticising Stormzy (a man who has done genuinely remarkable things for his community) for misogyny, and barely any (I don’t think I’ve ever seen one) criticising white men like Ed Sheeran for lyrics which are easily as harmful or arguably even more so.

If Stormzy is the only person who gets mumsnet riled up about misogyny in contemporary music that tells you much more about the unconscious racial bias of the mumsnet demographic than it does about Stormzy, and dressing it up with righteous indignation about the word ‘slut’ specifically doesn’t change that.

Had the kids from #BikesUp KnivesDown on stage 🖤

Loved this Duet with Christ Martin

Princess K - street dancing at such a young age, in front of that mammoth crowd.....in awe!

@VladmirsPoutine thank you, you too!

Banksy collab,
I'm a massive banksy fan too, so this dreamy!

So much more to be said about Big Mike than this threads original post

He had the main stage dressed as a South London tower block #Iconic

Vivienne - the other thread about Stormzy was someone saying she thinks he’s hot! That’s all.

I certainly don’t think stormzy should get a free pass because white men do it too, I’m just a bit hmm that it’s mostly black men that get talked about
Exactly no one expects white artists to be the role model for white people everywhere. Black artists have to speak for all black people and be perfect in everything at all times. It’s a nasty double standard.
I hate that Nick Jonas song Jealous which is basically him being a controlling arsehole and blaming his girlfriend for getting male attention with the old ‘I Trust You it’s the men I don’t trust’ sctick. Don’t see anyone calling him out though ....

@gamerwidow EXACTLY! Look at right-wing terrorists, for example. Where are their community leaders? Nope. It's just us brown folk that need to be controlled and seek guidance from our 'community leaders'. Why are we judged to a far harsher standard than white people?

Even on this thread someone has explicitly told me as a black woman that I should take offence at Stormzy's lyrics as it's 'black women' like me who are at the end of that.

It must be fun to have all the privilege.

If this flaming Ed Sheeran or Boris Johnson or my Iranian husband or my son or whoever from wherever used the word “slut”, I would have exactly the same reaction. I absolutely know that for a fact.

The OP had watched his performance and said she liked it but asked why he needs to include certain lyrics. That’s all. It’s a reasonable question. If someone else had headlined yesterday, maybe there wouid have been a thread on some aspect of that?

There are threads on here questioning all kinds of people of all walks of life all the time. People will respond if questions are posed. For my part, I quite like some if Stormzy’s music, but I think his lyrics are a shame and unnecessary. That’s it really.

Vivienne - the other thread about Stormzy was someone saying she thinks he’s hot! That’s all.

Bullshit. There was one a month or so saying ‘AIBU to think Vossi Bop is misogynistic rubbish’. The thread saying he’s hot was full of comments talking about misogyny.

Who has suggested Stormzy be a role model for all black people? Where was that comment? I don’t think he should take responsibility for anyone other than himself, but he could maybe just think about the impact his lyrics could have, particularly for younger, more impressionable people - of all backgrounds. As I say, if you want to walk the walk as a role model, try and talk the talk.

Well Ok, I wasn’t in the other thread about this artist.

I’m not sure you can take three threads about Stormzy in as many months as evidence of a MN racial bias though. I’ve seen just as many threads about people like Amanda Holden - god knows why! If there was a negative sentiment about black music, you would expect a lot more artists to be cropping up rather than just this one, surely?

Even on this thread someone has explicitly told me as a black woman that I should take offence at Stormzy's lyrics as it's 'black women' like me who are at the end of that. It must be fun to have all the privilege

On threads discussing issues relating to racism, it's worth remembering that very few of us know who is posting comments. I've been written off a 'white, pearl clutching, middle aged feminist.' Which is kind of amusing, but also not.

Assumptions can cut both ways.

He's a prick. Anyone who wears a stab vest and then sings about guns and violence is a prick.

As for what @Earlywalker said... lets change that to things about race or sexual orientation and suddenly it's (rightly) not ok. Why is it ok when it's about women? Fuck off.

You do know why he was wearing the stab vest Tally?