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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stormzy AIBU

548 replies

MissChananderlerbong · 29/06/2019 09:40

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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FairyDust92 · 02/07/2019 17:44

🙄

Juells · 02/07/2019 17:47

Stormzy was only the second ever black British act to be allowed to headline glasto

That's a weird way of putting it. "allowed to". I'd have thought it was always about what big popular names they could get, same as with any festival.

Anyway, looks like it was Skunk Anansie.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 02/07/2019 17:51

Actually Jay Z and Beyonce headlined in 2008

Earlywalker · 02/07/2019 17:55

I wouldn’t expect someone who doesn’t believe in white privilege to understand what I meant by that julles so don’t strain yourself.

Pa1oma
I’m glad you appreciate the good he did/does do. I understand your distaste at the lyric, I agree it promotes porn culture. I disagree it promotes violence to woman as I don’t think we should confuse consenting sexual acts with abuse, careless of how ‘tAsteless’ they may seem. I do however, think it’s important to highlight how different the reaction to stormzys lyrics are, over other artists who performed/are on the radio with misogynistic lyrics. And to consider if subconscious bias may be at play there.

Earlywalker · 02/07/2019 17:55

When did Jay Z and Beyoncé become British? Confused

VivienneHolt · 02/07/2019 17:58

@Pa1oma here is a copy paste of my comment - you asked for specific lyrics for you to respond to, and these are my examples.

I didn’t say you were an Ed Sheeran fan (and your deliberate misrepresentation of what I have said is getting tedious) but you have justified him on this thread for not using the specific language you have decided is problematic. I want to know why you object to Stormzy, but not the following:

Ed Sheeran is a great example of this, actually. Stormzy raps about ejaculating on a woman’s face and it’s automatically perceived as something degrading and offensive, despite the fact that this is something some women do enjoy and willingly participate in.

Ed Sheeran on the other hand, king of the Nice Guy persona, gets a free pass despite multiple instances of toxic masculinity in his music.

“What’s your history? Do you have a tendency to lead some people on?”

That’s a bit problematic, isn’t it? Slut shaming a girl and suggesting that if she behaves in a certain way and then doesn’t follow through with sex, she’s deceptively misleading people.

Now how about this gem?

"Tell me that you'll turn down the man
Who asks for your hand
Cause you're waiting for me
And I know, you're gonna be away a while
But I've got no plans at all to leave
And would you take away my hopes and dreams?
Just stay with me"

This is a perfect example of the ‘Nice guys finish last’ trope, in which women are blamed for being too shallow and stupid to pick the good guy. See also:

^"Now I don't wanna hate you
Just wish you'd never gone for the man
And waited two weeks at least
Before you let him take you
I stayed true, I kind of knew
You liked the dude from private school."^

More slut shaming (‘just wish you’d waited two weeks’), more blaming women for picking men with perceived status (‘private school’) over Nice Guys who would love them and treat them right, more objectifying (‘let him take you’).

I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that these are tropes which are rife in incel / red pill circles, where deluded and women-hating men convince themselves that women owe them relationships and are unfairly withholding sex and affection. That is the community which spawned Elliot Rodgers, the man who cited women’s refusals to date him as his motivation for murder. Ed Sheeran is clearly nowhere near that extreme, but the same ideas clearly permeate his love songs.

I’m not trying to give Stormzy a free pass here. I think some of what he says is misogynistic. But it is perfectly valid to make the point that he is being held to a higher standard than other (usually white) artists whose work evidences misogyny, just in an apparently more palatable way. Misogyny in contemporary music is a widespread problem and a lot of artists are guilty of it. But three threads on mumsnet about Stormzy’s misogyny and none about other artists suggests that it’s not just concern for women’s rights at play here; it’s also an illustration that some artists are protected by white privilege, and we aren’t doing enough to recognise our own bias in respect of that.

Pa1oma · 02/07/2019 18:05

Alll the massive stadium gigs or concerts I’ve ever been to have been black artists though. Why is Glastonbury considered a particular big deal, as opposed to Beyoncé at the O2 or similar?

InTheHeatofLisbon · 02/07/2019 18:06

When did Jay Z and Beyoncé become British?

He didn't say British did he? He said black. Then changed it after Skin from SA gently reminded him that he actually wasn't.

The point here is that he doesn't get a free pass to be a misogynist and perpetuating misogynistic attitudes because he has himself experienced bigotry.

One doesn't excuse the other does it? I don't see many people picking up on the disablist aspect of his recent history while busy climbing on their soap box either.

He's not a dick because he's black, he's a dick because he's a misogynist and disablist.

VivienneHolt · 02/07/2019 18:08

Glastonbury is one of a kind, so it’s unique. It’s attended by all kinds of people, rather than the specific fans of any one particular artist. It’s the most important contemporary music event in the country.

newbie222 · 02/07/2019 18:10

Oh god leave the grime industry be. No one gives a fuck about reading into the lyrics

Earlywalker · 02/07/2019 18:10

He didn't say British did he? He said black. Then changed it after Skin from SA gently reminded him that he actually wasn't.

He said black British, then she told him and he wrote about her and apologised and saluted her.

The point here is that he doesn't get a free pass to be a misogynist and perpetuating misogynistic attitudes because he has himself experienced bigotry.

Nobody has said that.

Vivienne great post.

BlackWomanHere · 02/07/2019 18:11

Quoting Eminem and Robin Thicke In 2019 is showing how most people commenting showing themselves to be completely out of touch with the music you're critiquing.

newbie222 · 02/07/2019 18:11

I noticed the crowd was mainly white at Glastonbury. Mostly white middle class drug taking posh kids whose parents pay for their ticket. Let’s start on race.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 02/07/2019 18:17

BlackWomanHere they were quoted because their misogyny was disgusting.

So do please tell me how I'm so out of touch for not wanting young men to see my daughters and think that debasing females during sex is perfectly normal?

I'll wait.

Earlywalker · 02/07/2019 18:25

I’d like to know what is considered ‘normal sex’?

Would it have been less offensive if he said ‘finish inside her’ ‘finish in the johnny’?

It sounds crude saying it but I think a lot of people are taking offence to that line in particular, so...?

Talking about sex is normal amongst young people, they are a lot less ‘shy’ about it in general these days I find. So I think it would be silly to assume no one will talk about it in songs.

(For what it’s worth I don’t actually like the lyric myself)

InTheHeatofLisbon · 02/07/2019 18:29

It would have been less offensive. Because it's not treating women like objects.

It's not normal, my 16 to DSD is horrified by it, has been subjected to unsolicited dick pics, told she needs a good fuck to "cure" her being gay, and been told that she's a prude for not being interested in boys.

Hmm, where are these boys getting their sexually aggressive entitlement from I wonder? Oh aye, men in the public eye, with large followings, perpetuating misogynistic bullshit because they enjoy it. Or see no harm in it. Either way, it's shit.

BlackWomanHere · 02/07/2019 18:37

"
Hmm, where are these boys getting their sexually aggressive entitlement from I wonder? Oh aye, men in the public eye, with large followings, perpetuating misogynistic bullshit because they enjoy it. Or see no harm in it. Either way, it's shit."

FFS parent your own kids.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 02/07/2019 18:38

FFS parent your own kids

Er I do, shame others don't and accuse people of being out of touch for objecting to sexual aggression aimed at their daughters eh?

Still waiting by the way.

Pa1oma · 02/07/2019 18:40

Vivienne - I think your point about the Ed Sheeran lyric is quite convoluted and I have to be honest with you when I say no, it doesn’t have anywhere near the same impact on me. But I’ve already explained this. The Sheeran lyrics could equally be a woman talking to a man. Having said this, I don’t know the songs at all.

However, the fact I don’t find that particular lyric you have quoted to be as distasteful as the ones which are the subject of this thread, does not make me “racially biased.” How can you even think that’s a reasonable thing to argue?

You’re entitled to your own interpretation of Sheeran though. I would never tell you you are wrong or to check your bias. You feel the way you feel and that’s ok.

That IS NOT to say I don’t think white music can be misogynistic. Eminem would be a much better example as far as I’m concerned. Personally, I find that kind of blatant misogyny via direct aggressive language much more distressing. That’s me being honest.

You can’t accuse me of racial bias on the grounds that I don’t have the same visceral reaction to those rambling Sheeran lyrics as I do to the current Stormzy ones. That said, I obviously acknowledge there are worse lyrics over history than Stormzy’s - and Eminem is a perfect example of this.

Misogyny comes in many forms. We will all have our personal reactions and biases. I think you are wrong to put race at the centre of everything, Glasto or not.

For instance, take a woman who has been sexually assaulted and part of that was a forced facial / gagging / face slap / vomiting ordeal. If she is triggered or has a gut reaction to thr mention of “facials” dropped in as a casual lyric in music, it has nothing to do with race does it? Nor does it have anything to do with what other people may be doing or not doing elsewhere in music or in history. How bloody insulting it would be if someone were to tell her she only feels that way because she the man who sung that lyric happened to be black and she needs to look at the wider picture and think about all the possible ways women are insulted. Or that he does lots of charity work and is very popular.

Chloe9 · 02/07/2019 18:42

Hate that Stormzy lyric. It is misogynistic and crude and unnecessary. I don't think that because he's black, and yes I also think Ed Sheeran is a creep...

Still listen to their music though Confused

BlackWomanHere · 02/07/2019 18:43

Anyway, I think it's fitting that his latest song talks about the burdens of being voice of young black guys.

Lyrics for you! ✌🏾

Searchin' every corner of my mind
Lookin' for the answers I can't find
I have my reasons and life has its lessons and
I tried to be grateful and count all my blessings
But heavy is the head that wears the crown
Amen, in Jesus' name, yes I declare it
Any little seed I receive, I have to share it
Bruddas wanna break me down, I can't bare it
But heavy is the head with the crown, I still wear it
You can't hold me down, I still cope
Rain falling down at the BRITs, I'm still soaked
Tried put a hole in our shit, we'll build boats
Two birds with one stone, I'll kill both (What?)
Pray I never lose and pray I never hit the shelf (Two)
Promise if I do that you'll be checkin' on my health (Cool)
If it's for my people I'll do anything to help
If I do it out of love it's not to benefit myself, ooh
Gotta stay around but make a comeback too
I know my only mother wants her son back too
They sayin' I'm the voice of the young black youth
And then I say "Yeah, cool" and then I bun my zoot
And now I'm searchin' every corner of my mind
(Search every corner, look for the answers)
Lookin' for the answers I can't find
(No, I can't find 'em, no silver lining)
I have my reasons and life has its lessons
I tried to be grateful and count all my blessings
But heavy is the head that wears the crown
Amen, in Jesus' name, oh yes I claim it
Any little bread that I make I have to break it
Bruddas wanna break me down, I can't take it
I done a scholarship for the kids, they said it's racist
That's not anti-white, it's pro-black
Hang me out to dry, I won't crack
All these fancy ties and gold plaques
Never had no silver spoons and our mouths, we sold-, like
Don't comment on my culture, you ain't qualified
Stab us in the back and then apologise
If you knew my story you'd be horrified
The irony of trappin' on a Boris bike
Gotta stay alive and save my brother as well
Look at all these legends on the cover of Elle
Long time comin' but we come to prevail
I guess a little bit of heaven has to come with the hell, you know
Searchin' every corner of my mind
(Search every corner, look for the answers)
Lookin' for the answers I can't find
(No, I can't find 'em, no silver lining)
I have my reasons and life has its lessons
I tried to be grateful and count all my blessings
But heavy is the head that wears the crown
Heavy is the head that wears the crown

Iamnotagoddess · 02/07/2019 18:43

Have you listened to the Grease soundtrack recently?

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 02/07/2019 18:57

I think that forgetting about the woman who came before you and then claiming her achievement as if it was your own, is a bit misogynistic though. If I was Skin, I'd be pissed off with him.

Earlywalker · 02/07/2019 19:20

If he hadn’t of apologised and shouted her out, you might have a point.

Stormzy AIBU
Pa1oma · 02/07/2019 19:57

Actually, I’m sitting here feeling strangely distressed by this thread. I’m just going to be honest and admit that I probably do have a “bias” in my reaction to the “facials” lyric, but I am absolutely as certain as I can be about anything that my “bias” is not to do with race. It has everything to do with certain personal experiences from my past. That’s my “bias” and I think that’s why I’m reacting so strongly and keep coming back to this thread. I know I won’t be the only woman who feels the same, for similar reasons. I spent many years working with survivors of sexual abuse - in and around Norbury where this guy hails from of all places. The word “facial” has a particular connotation for me, as it will do for many many women, so when you see thousands of smiling faces at a festival, all swaying and singing along as if the dropping of that word should now be considered as nothing more than a bit of fun within popular mainstream music, it just triggers something. It’s hard to explain. You just want to scream.

And then you get other women on here telling you that you must have “racial bias”, when you know within yourself that this is so far from the truth and so irrelevant to how you are feeling that it’s ridiculous.

I wonder if Stormzy ever received a petition or something from women like me who found certain aspects his music triggering, if he might reconsider his lyrics going forward and maybe apologise? I wonder if he could understand or relate or if he’d care?