Stormzy AIBU

[MissChananderlerbong]

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

Isn't it really patronising to "excuse" a man for misogynist language because they are black?
And no one is really saying that or defending that use of language.
They're saying that song and use of language as a lyric isn't brand new, it's highlighted because his main stage performance will have opened up his audience to people previously unaware of his work, put him more in focus and shone his light brighter - accepted.
But there was a active choice to comment on the plethora of positive messages portrayed throughout his performance and his activism, which was dismissed in favour of focussing on the negative.
So posters are aware it's very easy to ignore a strong black man's overwhelmingly positive contributions to society and are adding balance to the conversation, rather than it be dismissed or overlooked in favour of highlighting a negative.
Some of us are really aware of how historically and presently, its been easy wayyyy to easy to loudly portray the narrative of black community in a negative light and are prepared to balance the overall conversation.
@joannacuppa posted a very nuanced reply, which i completely agree with also

@mauritiusnext
Wore a stab vest and shouted fuck the government

• Yes [stab vest], he decried knife crime through art.
• Yes [fuck the government], he is vocal in his criticism of the government for their actions before and after Grenfell & towards the Windrush scandal.

Very proud of him!

But again, Glasto. Stormzy doesn't mean anything to me, I know nothing of his life offstage. If he says slut onstage I am not required to Google him to find out if he's a good un or not. This thread is about whether the language he uses is acceptable, not about the rest of his life.

If a man says slut in front of me, then I know he's that kind of person. His other character facets don't enter the conversation and nor should they.

I have no subconscious bias to “tear down” this artist for his success, any more than I feel the need to tear down Beyoncé!

Beyonce is another great example of a black artist held to a much higher standard than her white counterparts. Beyonce faced a huge backlash for the fact that her video for the song XO was directed by Terry Richardson, a known sexual predator who has a long history of preying on the young women he works with. Miley Cyrus, on the other hand, was praised for how innovative the video for Wrecking Ball was, despite the fact that it was also directed by Richardson.

Now I am of the view that neither woman should have hired a known abuser to direct their videos, but why was the backlash against Beyonce so much worse than that faced by Miley? Particularly in the context of the extraordinary work Beyonce has done in service of improving the lives of black women in America, compared to comparatively very little by Miley.

It’s very similar to the present situation. Stormzy and Ed Sheeran have both used misogynistic language and / or tropes in their music. But the backlash against Stormzy is so much worse, despite the fact that he has provably done so much more than Sheeran in support of women in his community.

The reason for this is, straightforwardly, racial bias. This doesn’t mean everyone criticising Stormzy is a flat out bigot. Not at all. It means that you’ve been conditioned by the media (which is itself subject to the same hostile bias). It’s subconscious - you don’t even realise you’re doing it. And I am doing it too! It’s very difficult not to. You have to consciously train yourself to challenge it. That can’t be done until you at least acknowledge that it’s happening. The Harvard test is a good place to start.

Exactly GreatOne spot on.

For me personally, I’m just fed up of feeling like people are constantly ready and waiting to bring a successful black person down a peg or two. The fact that so many people have ignored any positives and focused on a song lyric is sadly not surprising though.

I don't think you're the demographic he's after if you're offended. I listen to music with 'offensive' to white middle class people and love it.

f he says slut onstage I am not required to Google him to find out if he's a good un or not.
The hard effort of a Google search, no, not required.
Ignoring all the positive messages and art shown onstage at the same time though, in favour of the negative? Lazy

Yes Vivienne absolutely spot on too.

It’s so easy to remove certain offensive terms from music though. Homophobic or racist slurs would not be allowed on stage and rightly so. Thankfully such language is now taboo in our society. So why do we still tolerate misogynistic slurs? What the difference? Why is it ok because it’s about women? Why do we, as women, try and make excuses or sublimate it as “art” or “culture.” This is the point I’m interested in. I’m not just talking about Stormzy - it could apply to anyone who is prepared to stand on a stage in a hugely influential position and use the word “slut.” For me, the issue is not about ethnicity, it’s about the way that the porn culture is becoming normalised and accepted across society. It’s ok now to talk about finishing in a girl’s face, on an iconic stage. Millions will applaud you for it. This is way beyond any debate on race for me. It just seems bizarre and I worry about my kids tbh. It’s as if we’re going backwards in some ways.

If you are white, you have zero right to tell someone of BAME origins what is and is not racist.
Bollocks. You don't have a right to tell me what my motivations are

Billie eilish new song:

Creeping around like no one knows
Think you're so criminal
Bruises, on both my knees for you
Don't say thank you or please
I do what I want when I'm wanting to

Then some stuff about maybe seducing his dad and being an animal for him...

Do you think this promotes porn culture? Which I agree is an issue.

I heard him on the radio so I didn't see his stage set. But I doubt a great set would detract from abusive language.

Fwiw I enjoyed his performance, I'm just gutted to find out he's one of them.

I can’t believe this is still running and people are still denying the unconscious bias directed at black artists. Stormzy uses the word ‘slut’ in one line of the chorus of Not That Deep- not brilliant but certainly not the most important message to take from his music.
What about ‘Know Me From’
“We all know you’re a good child
So pull up your jeans
Get off the street and go do your Mum proud
Go get a job and don’t come out your house,mug”
Or “Power”
“You can be a woman & a boss
And wear the trousers at the same time
(You should know)
That I ain’t never letting go
But as long as I’m alive then I’ll be sponsoring your pride
You know there’s power in a couple
Let me compliment your vibe “.

But I doubt a great set would detract from abusive language.

Does for me. Plenty of women sing alone to songs that are misogynistic and love them.

The acceptable amount of abusive, dehumanising language is none

But then we wouldn't have music like Eminem's and 50-Cent etc, which would be awful.

Fwiw I enjoyed his performance, I'm just gutted to find out he's one of them

She.

Yes I do think Billie Eilush’s music promotes porn culture. It also promotes girls to obsess about mental health issues such as depression, suicidal ideation and I was thinking about starting a thread on her the other day because one of my daughters is listening to her. Again, I just needed to find out what her lyrics actually are because she sings in a very ethereal way and it’s hard to decipher.

However, I do think there is a difference between a woman, such as Ariana Grande or Cardi B - as women - using the word “bitch” or “slut” in their music, as opposed to a male artist using such language. Even though it’s the same industry that fuels it, it doesn’t feel as demeaning somehow. I mean, I’d rather it wasn’t there at all, but I guess some female artists would say they’re in control of their lyrics and are now “re-appropriating” the term or something along those lines. It’s still damaging, but not as violently aggressive as when a male presumes to use it.

Totally agree. Lots of women in real life and on stage use the word bitch, but I loathe hearing a man say that word.

I wouldn't dream of using racially dehumanising language, though I understand the context of bame people using whatever words they like. It's not mine to use is it.

He’s such a beacon of enlightenment. www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/stormzy-apologises-for-foul-and-disgusting-homophobic-tweets-a3698651.html

Fwiw I enjoyed his performance, I'm just gutted to find out he's one of them

She.

Has Stormzy changed sex?

@MorrisZapp
I heard him on the radio so I didn't see his stage set.
Ok you didn't see the visuals.
But Same point still stands, then you've dismissed lots of positive lyrics (someone else posted good examples and there's many many more in his lyrics - I'll add one, 'I'm Abigail's youth, but I'm God's son' which honours his mum and female empowerment, as a child from a single-parent family & show's his humbleness to his faith), in favour of the negative.

...bit lazy imo

@SoupDragon I'm interested to also know what that means. Has Stormzy become a woman overnight and no-one noticed?

I assumed it was the start of ‘sheesh’

But its random either way

'But then we wouldn't have music like Eminem's and 50-Cent etc, which would be awful.'

That's debatable!