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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stormzy AIBU

548 replies

MissChananderlerbong · 29/06/2019 09:40

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

OP posts:
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Writersblock2 · 30/06/2019 00:54

Let’s be honest, it’s “cool” to be liberal in so many ways but as usual, women are at the bottom of the shit heap. So while I know next to nothing about this guy (and not so I care to), you are not being unreasonable!

GreatOne · 30/06/2019 09:33

@VladmirsPoutine
GreatOne You have been ignored on this thread. Are you some sort of promoter?
Lol no. I just think it's important to show all the brilliant elements of his art, as opposed to people attempting to tear him down from the amazing height he reached on Friday, because he's a significant, relevant and current Black British icon. I thought his performance was emotive and I was super proud

CalmConfident · 30/06/2019 09:37

@greatone well said.

On which note...see the news that banksy made his customised stab vest

MorrisZapp · 30/06/2019 09:40

Bit daft to ask why people are noticing Stormzy all of a sudden. It's because he was a headline act at Glastonbury, which receives massive coverage.

I've never paid him any attention but he was on radio 2 so there he was, in my kitchen.

And now I have noticed him.

BTW, creepy lyrics are a recurrent theme on here, and mostly fill up with references to outdated white artists, if this matters. I'm not sure that comparing a man in 2019 saying slut with a band in the seventies using the expression 'little girl' is in any way helpful though. Stormzy can and should do better.

Guns n Roses Appetite for Destruction was over 30 years ago by the way. I threw the album cover in the bin as an outraged teenager because it depicted a rape scene.

Not sure why I would mention that in a thread about something I just heard today.

GreatOne · 30/06/2019 09:42

GreatOne You have been ignored on this thread. Are you some sort of promoter?
I'm not suprised that people have nothing to say in reply to the black ballet, promoting activism against knife crime by having the kids from BikesUp KnivesDown, those who completely misunderstood the Banksy vest, creating a tower block on the main stage in Somerset (the juxtaposition is huge, and brilliantly done)......because acknowledging and understanding all his art doesn't fit the narrative of the orginal post, far easier to ignoring it and try dismiss him.

Vulpine · 30/06/2019 09:44

There have been threads on here before about the type of language boys use to describe/talk to girls on social media/At school etc. Stormzy is part of a culture that normalises this, as have countless white artists. His colour and tough upbringing are no excuse for misogyny in any guise.

GreatOne · 30/06/2019 09:47

@MorrisZapp
Tbf people have referenced current white artists, Nick Jonas, Ed Sheeran, Billie Eillish, etc etc, not just decades old ones, for their lyrics and the lesser backlash they receive in comparison.

Earlywalker · 30/06/2019 10:12

I don’t think anyone’s condoned stormzy (or anyone’s) use of the world slut. Although I can’t get worked up about the rest.
It’s just interesting that there is misogyny in most songs these days if you actually listen but Stormzy is held to much higher standards and it does ultimately come down to white privilege (although I’m now pretty sure atleast one poster doesn’t believe in that!)

People have said black woman should be offended, the same people would never say white woman be most offended if Ed Sheehan says something offensive. The fact that he should be trying to tackle misogyny in ‘gang culture’ and that he should be a role model to black people etc. We don’t hold white singers to the same responsibility.

Stormzy has done so much for the black community. To you maybe it’s irrelevent, maybe because that’s not your culture. I’m surrounded by young black boys that can see someone like stormzy absolutely killing it and it’s amazing there are people like them in the public eye to look up too.

The things he does in his actions, using his slot to address violence and racial prejudices. When he sent black kids to uni, it wasn’t just those kids he was helping, it was the black kids who heard and saw that university was achievable.

Setting up his publishing brand to give young people a voice, giving young black girls a voice they wouldn’t otherwise have.

Unless you’re directly inside that life (I grew up in a London tower block with mainly other black people) you may not realise it, but sometimes it seems that whenever a black person does well, white people always show up to try and knock them back down a peg or two.

Yes he said ‘slut’, I disagree with that but I think all the threads about him personally does stem from a bit of unconscious racism and it’s upsetting that people are blind to it. I’m not saying anyone here is a raging racist, I think it’s subconscious but it’s a shame some don’t see how stormzy is a victim of scrutiny due to his colour.

MorrisZapp · 30/06/2019 10:28

Which current white artists use words like slut?

The biggest outrage on here about lyrics was Robin Thicke, which ran and ran. Regardless of who wrote the lyric, he performed it and pissed off a generation of women.

Or perhaps it was 'in character' and a performance, thus immune from criticism.

Vulpine · 30/06/2019 10:35

So given he does so much good works in other areas, why can't his expand his efforts to tackling misogyny in his community and further afield

GreatOne · 30/06/2019 10:41

@earlywalker
I thought the tower block on stage was superb. For reasons related to your post.
I'm mixed. I grew up in South Somerset. In a period of time when football fans threw bananas at black premier league players. In the whole town there were a handful of black faces. The complete opposite to what you describe @earlywalker. I've driven through the rural area where glastonbury is held, a hundred times. So I completely understood the contrast he presented by bringing South London to the Pilton stage.
Mel C in the spice girls was the respresentation of a person who looked like me, when I was growing up. Oprah, Mandela, the Jacksons, were my cultral heroes.
Stormzy is right up there as a cultral icon too.
It's interesting those on this thread most vigorously standing up for Big Mike are WOC, because we get the whole picture and we know his activism, how he actual stands firmly in favour of women.

GreatOne · 30/06/2019 10:45

@Vulpine why can't his expand his efforts to tackling misogyny in his community and further afield
You mean like, maybe a book deal, publishing and promoting black FEMALE oxbridge authors....yea he's already done that.

Earlywalker · 30/06/2019 10:48

Vulpine he’s done more for young black girls than any white artist I can think of.

It’s not his job alone to tackle misogyny.

JoannaCuppa · 30/06/2019 10:49

When women make comments that display an internalized misogyny, we understand that we live in an imperfect, misogynistic world, and that we are products of our environment. Does this not also apply to young men?

The use of the word slut isnt great, and is very misogynistic. But if Eminem can write a song about being a crazed superman, and all of us recognise that he was being a character - Stan, then why can't Stormzy be rapping as if in character as someone else?

The racism on this thread is huge. When black women on the thread explain the racist elements of the criticism of Stormzy, it is sickening to tell them that it isn't about race. If you are white, you have zero right to tell someone of BAME origins what is and is not racist.

Frankly, that disturbs me far more than the word slut does.

Pa1oma · 30/06/2019 10:53

I would hold Stormzy to exactly the same standards as I wouid any other adult male. He should expect no less.

When I was younger, I only listened to classical music or rap / R&B in the 90s Grin Some of the lyrics were far worse than anything than Stormzy puts out, in fact if I linked them here they would get deleted. Yet, there was a kind of mental dissonance going on. I made excuses because I liked the music - who was I, as a white person, to judge Method Man etc if I didn’t understand the social context and so on...

These days, I don’t see any need to make excuses. That goes for anyone in the music industry. This thread I responded to yesterday was about Stormzy because he’s in the media spotlight right now. If it was a white rapper, the same would apply. If it was any other artist - white or Asian - the same would apply. I have no subconscious bias to “tear down” this artist for his success, any more than I feel the need to tear down Beyoncé! There are so many hugely successful black artists that we’ve all grown up with and are the soundtracks to our lives. Black music icons are no novelty. If anything, they are the norm, I wouid say. You can think I have a subconscious bias if you want to, but you genuinely are barking up the wrong tree.

I totally get the point of the bullet proof jacket etc and the statement there and good on him. But I won’t make excuses for his misogynistic, porn-fuelled language. That is not because I’m a racist. It is not because I’m a feminist. It’s because I’m a woman and a mother. That’s it.

If anyone wants to start a thread about misogyny in anyone else’s music, then please do. I doubt I’ll disagree.

MorrisZapp · 30/06/2019 10:55

I found Eminems lyrics disturbingly misogynist and I said so at the time (twenty years ago). So did many people.

The acceptable amount of abusive, dehumanising language is none.

MauritiusNext · 30/06/2019 10:56

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IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 30/06/2019 11:02

"I have no subconscious bias to “tear down” this artist for his success"

How can you possibly know that?

Do the Harvard unconscious bias test. It's eye opening.

TheBigBallOfOil · 30/06/2019 11:07

Misogynist worthless crap is misogynist worthless crap whoever’s peddling it. End of. Stormzy should do better, assuming he knows better, which available evidence would suggest he does.

MauritiusNext · 30/06/2019 11:08

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Pa1oma · 30/06/2019 11:08

Ok well I haven’t done that test. But I’m 100% certain, I would be equally offended if those lyrics came out if the mouth of Justin Bieber.

If a man in the street shouted “slut” at you, wouid you be any less offended if he was black or white? This is nonsense. Would you think, “Oh well, I have to just get over myself about the visceral reaction I have to that kind of language because, after all, there are sexist undertones in many areas of life.” If you think life that, you’d never challenge anything!

GreatOne · 30/06/2019 11:11

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis
Yes, Everyone and I mean everyone, has bias, subconscious or apparent.
It's so uninformed, of those who try to refute that. And in some scenarios actually very dangerous to deny it within oneself (eg racial profiling by police forces)

Mayday19 · 30/06/2019 11:12

The acceptable amount of abusive, dehumanising language is none
That is a great sentence Morris.
I've been swinging around viewpoint-wise on this thread as obviously I know I have white privilege but I sure as hell don't have female privilege and I'm not sure why my oppression has to come lower than any other. Isn't it really patronising to "excuse" a man for misogynist language because they are black?

MauritiusNext · 30/06/2019 11:15

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Earlywalker · 30/06/2019 11:22

No one has excused his language because he’s black Hmm

I can’t remember who said the term ‘white feminism’ i’d Never heard of it until this thread but boy have my eyes been opened now.