Stormzy AIBU

[MissChananderlerbong]

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

Ariana Grande is a black-fish. Complete was of time.

But surely, this man is an adult man and should be subject to the same judgement as any other adult man.

If your DH used the word “slut” in front of you or you teens, wouid you say, “Well hmm, but it’s ok because he does lots of charity work and has paid for their education.”

If you were in a date and the guy decided to finish in your fsce whether you like it or not, would you say, “Well never mind. He’s so respected in his community after all - and he’s spoken out about x,y,z ... I’d better shut up and not make a fuss...”

I’m sure Donald Trump could claim to have funded some worthy projects in his time. I don’t care. He’s still a misogynist. People will judge him by his words regardless of his actions - that’s life.

My daughters are mixed Middle Eastern / southern European heritage. If they heard the “p” word in a song, they would be obviously outraged. Yet I have to be honest and say that when it comes to words “slut”, “bitch” or porn references in songs or videos, I think they’re more likely to just absorb and internalise it and feel powerless to challenge it. I think this is so sad and this is the issue for me. It affects us all and it goes way deeper than race.

I'm still not getting this. Someone does loads of good and something bad, I will still call out the bad. That doesn't mean dismissing the good or wanting them banned or anything. Maybe as I teach and it's a classic "two stars and a wish" - he can improve. It wouldn't be hard would it to talk about sex in more mutually enjoyable ways and not to say slut.

*waste

@Pa1oma Donald Trump isn't the best example to use to make the point you think you are making. He is the epitome of white privilege. If Obama had been implicated in just 10% of what Trump has, Obama would currently be in jail. Look at even the different standards that were afforded to Michelle and Melania.

The point t I’m trying to make is that you can’t use one inequality to excuse the reinforcement of another.

Racism exists and nobody would deny that. It’s still no excuse for misogyny. These are separate issues.

You can compare this artist to that artist, or that politician to that one, and get into as much whstsboutery as you like but it still boils down to the same thing. No man - black, white, Asian young, old, privileged, under-privieged, educated or otherwise - should be referring to women as sluts on stage or in private in 2019. No exceptions. No excuses or deflections onto anyone else. Take responsibility for your own actions. This is basic stuff. It’s wrong. It’s offensive. As women (and men) we should not tolerate it any longer.

Jimmy Saville gave millions to charity....just sayin.

Using the words like ‘slut’ and rapping about jizzing on a woman’s face does not make Stormzy comparable to Jimmy Saville at all.

I know, I know!

It’s just that stormzy seems to get a lot of hate here for a guy that seems to be trying to do good. Did anyone see his rap at the Brits a while ago about Teresa May and Grenfell? What a guy.

He shouldn’t use words that are offensive to woman like slut, it is wrong and he should stop. I think given the way he praises his mum at every opportunity and the amount he does for black woman and also the multiple lyrics praising woman, it’s a step to far to just straight up accuse him of being a misogynist.

I don’t think anyone’s a racist or deliberately singling him out because he’s black on purpose but I think when black people are actively discussing how black people are held to higher standards and scrutiny because of their race and people are denying it happens, it’s going to put people on the defensive.

Couldn't understand a word of what he was saying.

I adjourned to the kitchen and had a 15 minute conversation with my cat.

Cat was a lot more interesting, had a lot to say about his very busy day (he is the Colonel in Chief of 1st Batallion Mousing Warriors after all).

I then made a brew and sat down to watch Levison Woods off Sky Ketchup.

Xx

Well as long as it didn't refer to female cats as pussies.

It’s a shame you couldn’t understand it.

It’s a shame you thought your cat was more interesting, I thought stormzy was very interesting.

He started with a video from Jay Z explaining to do it for the culture so that young kids can aspire to be on glasto too.

He bought on fabulous young female ballet dancers who had their moment and highlighted that ballet shoes have only just become available to match black skin tones.

He spoke about racial injustices with black kids being criminalised by an inept justice system.

He performed in a stab proof vest to highlight the awful rates of knife crime swooping our nation.

He celebrated black achievements throughout and I personally loved every song he performed (although understand if it’s not your thing)

Stormzy has a lot to say too. He took his moment and ran with it and I am proud of him.

And that moment should have included showing respect to women. I would have loved him for that.

That's debatable!

True, pretty obvious which side I'd take. Some of my fave songs are some of the most misogynistic I've ever heard.

Yeah, what was he thinking... supporting black people (and thus, black woman) just wasn’t good enough

Why are blacks always bottom of the pile? Highlighting all of the shit that black people face like not even being able to buy SHOES in their skin colour, come to think of it I can’t even buy plasters in my skin colour. Talking about knife crime, racial injustices but nope he didn’t appease the white feminists cus he said slut so fuck him.

It’s ok though because ignorance really is bliss for some.

Using the word slut is the least of it. But hey he's super cool so he can literally say and do what ever the fuck he likes

I'm sure he is great, a totally fantastic person. But that setting with the lights, crowd etc I couldn't understand a word he was saying. For me it was a complete sensory overload.

Not listened to him before, actually I am going to totally admit I hadn't actually heard of him before Glastonbury.

Earlywalker, being called a slut is part of the "shit that black women face". Why was he adding to that?

Yes absolutely, every woman can be called a slut.

But when I’ve explained everything he did say (to someone who didn’t find it interesting) and someone responds with ‘yeah but he didn’t talk about woman’ it’s like a kick in the teeth as usual. Who cares about black rights and black injustices because x y z is happening.

As for calling him ‘super cool’ I’d like to know what white artists you refer to as super cool?

And if you genuinely believe a young, WC black man can get away with saying and doing whatever more so than most of the bearded white guitar playing blokes, I’m shocked at your ignorance.

The point myself and many others have made is that he cannot get away with doing what white artists can because he doesn’t benefit from white privilege and he is scrutinised harshly. To turn it around and say the opposite is quite something.

@Vulpine
And that moment should have included showing respect to women.

Were Ballet black & Princess K (the young street dancer) and the female gospel soloist in Blinded by your grace part II ......invisible??? Because I saw them!
So much of his set included female empowerment.

Women have always been able to "do stuff" as long as we know our place in the bedroom.

This thread is weird. I've been randomly copying a lot of bits that I think are particularly odd. Formatting on phone so prob looks weird!
FWIW I didn't know who Stormzy was, or his skin colour when I started wondering about some of the below:

"Yes, the lyrics aren’t the nicest and it’s a shame they’re used but it’s part of rap culture and slang is embedded in it."

• So maybe change rap culture/don't accept this? Culture is a human creation, and as such, can be changed.

"YABVVVVU unreasonable to be so ignorant of urban culture and the ways in which artists use the motifs and language of a specific culture and turn in into something big enough for wider society to take notice of."
-Um, sorry, but this is just apologist nonsense. If I called you a very rude word, say a term for those with learning disabilities beginning with R, would that be part of my 'urban culture' and me using the motifs of my childhood (it was commonly bandied around when I grew up), in order to get wider society to take notice of my rudeness and ignorance? No, it would just be rudeness and ignorance.

"It should really go without saying that these songs are performance pieces - not his diary entities.

It's essential that we have the freedom to explore any and every idea in our head."
- Ah yes, no 'art' can ever be off limits in case the precious 'artist' be denied their creative process. And repeating rude words that demean women is an 'exploration' how?

"He’s not going to be perfect, he’s grown up in a world that’s different to most mumsnetters and you won’t understand it. I just don’t think it’s fair to discredit him as a misogynist based on a few lyrics when you don’t know anything else he’s done for woman."
- I don't care what else he's done. Those things are not in a virtual ticker tape above his head. His words and music are what most people will hear/experience so anything else he chooses to do is irrelevant to what he did on stage. That's like claiming that Stalin shouldn't be reviled because in his spare time he rescued puppies. His words will have an effect, and any amount of good works won't undo that.

"I can't get worked up about someone using the word 'slut' when there are artists out there literally singing about hitting on little girls. It's one rule for some and another for others. Even if Stormzy was rapping about climate change and learning algebra there'd still be reason to take issue with him."
-For me, it's one rule for everyone. Be respectful . If you can't, then don't broadcast your hatred of women to a large audience.

"Exactly no one expects white artists to be the role model for white people everywhere. Black artists have to speak for all black people and be perfect in everything at all times."
- Sorry, but I expect all people in the public eye by choice to be role models to all their audiences. I don't limit this by race.

"Pa1oma With this statement here you just made:

^ As I said, I just think it’s a shame ^
when people I would otherwise
really like let themselves down.

Why do you think they should appease you or your views on them should be of any value? Who do you think you are? (With all due respect)."
- She's someone who's listening to his music. Why shouldn't artists appease/try not to be hateful towards their audience? Why shouldn't her views be of value? Should she just be quiet and listen like a good little woman?

"...but he didn’t talk about woman"

Isn't the complaint about how he talked about women in his lyrics?

Ohmigod I had the 6am news on with sound turned down and saw a clip of a performer on a stage who must be Stormzy. Whoever it was, he had red jeans on, but had pulled them down over his buttocks at the back, right down to the top of his thighs, to show his white underpants. Surely all anyone could think was "good job there are no skidmarks".