I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

[Fairylighting]

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

I think it's best for everyone if you fence the garden. It was a nice idea to try and share it, but it's not working, and although penelope will lose out in some ways, she'll probably be better off having a smaller, but private area. I'd go ahead with it immediately if I were you, no more pandering to her - it's clear that she doesn't want you using it at all.

I’d find a shared garden stressful so I don’t have one. Batshit Penelope doesn’t need to be pandered to, her anxiety is not your problem (just as mine is no-one else’s!).

I’d definitely do the fence. Then invite friends over to use the garden as much as poss. If you are lucky Penelope will move.

OP YANBU (except about the solar lights! They are pretty but very tacky)
I'd just wait and see what happens. The best solution is for things to carry on how they are but for Penelope to stop complaining. I'd give her a little bit longer and see how it goes. It might all die down. I'd carry on using the garden in the meantime.

You can't know whether or not Penelope is having serious mental health issues or not but if she is then I wouldn't want to go out my way to make her feel worse. She may not be behaving sensibly but it may not be her fault.

May I congratulate you on an outstanding diagram, OP. .

If I had a ground floor flat with french windows I would not be entirely comfortable with having to share the garden with someone else, I would not like the lack of privacy or having to hear someone outside my french windows sitting and chatting with their mother etc. However, that being said, Penelope is being VVU as she bought the flat knowing full well that she does not own the garden outright. If she wants sole use of the garden she should offer to buy your share of the garden at the market rate as this will reduce the value of your flat, otherwise she should put up and shut up. Or she can move and buy somewhere else with her own garden.

She can't have it both ways - she wants use of the full garden (because your bit is clearly nicer) and to have it completely to herself.

I agree that your threat to split the garden will probably get her to calm down for a bit but I agree with everyone else, dividing it is probably the easiest long term. Be it with a full fence, trellising or even just planting.

The problem is that shared setups only work well when everyone concerned is fully capable of and committed to making them succeed. While I can see the logic initially in pooling your garden space because it's small, there ingredients aren't there for it to work. Nobody's fault necessarily, just one of those things. You gave it a shot and it's not working. So, fence. Or trellis at least: some kind of boundary.

Well 99% of people agree with you OP.
I do think you should set her mind at rest regarding the lights though, make sure they don't shine on her room.

Put a fence up and do what you want in your garden, as long as you have enough room to sit out and maybe entertain someone then you've enough.
Put your washing out whenever you want to.

I think dividing it is the way to go, there are some really nice screens you can buy that would give both of you more privacy. It will make the spaces feel smaller but the current situation obviously isn't working for anyone so I would give that a try!

@LillithsFamiliar can't you read? The OP is using HER part of the garden that she's bought and paid for. She's not IN her neighbours part, but her batshit neighbour just doesn't like anyone in the shared garden at all!!

Fence it!

No other way around this when you are dealing with Batshit.

Just adding to the chorus.

YANBU

However, I do think you need to resolve this issue.

You've got a fantastic asset in having access to a garden and you should be able to use it freely.

This idea of "sharing" wouldn't work for me. If the weather is nice I'd want to enjoy may garden regardless of who S&P were entertaining or whose birthday it was.

Equally it would drive me potty having to ask if I could put fairy lights (or anything else) in MY garden.

Ultimately they bought the flat knowing the set up and if it doesn't work for them that's their issue. P may have other issues and anxiety and that's sad, but she and S can't expect you to pussy foot around that constantly and deprive you of enjoying your garden space.

As PP's have said put a fence up and be done with it. Better to have a smaller private space that you can enjoy/furnish as you please than a larger space where you're being dictated to by P&S.

It won't just resolve the issue for now, but also in the longer term if you or they sell you'll not be worried about re-negotiating garden access with new neighbours (who might be even more demanding) or alternatively explaining to potential buyers about this shared set up (which would put some people off your property and devalue it).

She sounds insane.
Anyway, I definitely think you should give your solicitor a visit. That’ll shut them up, and at least things will be very clear.

Or they could buy your half of the garden from you!

Fence.

Could you put some bamboo in pots along the boundary to provide a screen ? She sounds like she'd be less anxious with a fence for privacy. They get your stairs as an inconvenience but they have the advantage of patio doors.

Accidentally drop a catalogue containing nets/ textured glazing/ frosted window decals - whichever suits where you think their taste/ budget might sit?
She obviously have some issues possibly resulting from her depression, a serious think with Samuel about how to manage that in a way that is always in her control and let go of the things that are not. But it's not you that needs to do the changig as your account shows a willingness to be flexible. All anyone can hope for really.
They are already pushing it expecting to have exclusive garden rights for entertaining is that in and out?

I agree with that you are definitely NBU and should probably look at dividing the garden. Those planters with trellis up the back would probably be a good option. Then you can have solar lights and fairy lights to your hearts content.

Why would you have a rota?

Is it not better to be able to use your part whenever you want to rather than the whole of it sometimes?

I think Samuel is trying to tell you, and repeatedly, his wife is ill.

I would continue to use the garden as you see fit. They don't wish to split it. But she is trying to bully you out of using it.

I would imagine with what seems to be severe anxiety and depression. Walking into your lounge or kitchen and finding your neighbour sitting right outside your door and able to see you is not very pleasant. However this is their problem and they can't make it yours. They bought the house knowing this.

They have four options.

Continue with the current set up and stop moaning.
Keep their blinds or curtains closed at all times
Fence the garden into seperate spaces.
Move.

Clearly Samuel cannot control his wife or her interactions with uou, that would be appalling, but I think you do need to remember you're dealing with someone unwell. It makes your life difficult, but he's told you it's not about the garden, she's ill. As such, I would try to limit my interactions to with him where possible.

If half the garden is legally yours, the only way to put a stop to this nonsense is to erect a fence. This may mean that both of you have a less appealing garden to use, but without a fence the notion of a shared garden - when you're the person on the ground floor therefore with 'random strangers you don't know' hanging out right outside your back door - is also pretty hideous.

I am not sure why either of you are putting off the erecting of a fence or 'hard boundary' - without one, this is just going to drag on and on.

She’s ill, you can’t solve that. Continue to use your garden and be your usual considerate self. Draw a line under discussions and just be friendly and relaxed in manner.

The entitlement of some ppl :0 tell her to get some blinds and use your garden as and when you want to

YANBU & default to the original terms of your deeds, half and half. Install a fence & lockable gate.

There is not a chance in hell I would accept usage of a garden I owned the better part of on a rota.

Would agree with PPs that she might well cope better if there is a fence or some kind of screen for privacy. I do see why it wouldn't be fun having people right next to the window.