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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Bibijayne · 29/06/2019 20:48

The garden sharing isn't going to work. You need to split the garden as shown in land registry and leave Penelope to it.

bellabasset · 29/06/2019 20:49

If one of you had a dog and the other a toddler you would both have different needs. I lived in Victorian terraces in London for 36 years and my current terraced country cottage for 16 years.

My current house is a metre higher the road with 25' unfenced front garden and shared path. At the back there is a narrow path and the garden is raised another metre but my garden then widens across three of the neighbours and is another 120'. But we can see into each others houses. My dsis has 20' of garden so is overlooked.

I would suggest looking at separating the gardens. Why not put a 4' high gate, a pergola across the planting area with a 4' high trellis. If either side need privacy then pin a higher brushwood size fence across when needed. That way both properties could use their gardens privately but share the full vista of the space.

rslsys · 29/06/2019 20:49

In addition to the (obviously needed) fence, could I also suggest that you box your staircase in so they don't have to suffer the sight of you going up and down? The fact that it will further restrict their light would be an added bonus . . .

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 29/06/2019 20:56

Put up a fence and take up tapdancing. Grin

manicmij · 29/06/2019 20:56

Think I would invest in a formal border/fence to separate the two areas of garden. You are never going to satisfy all Penelope's needs trying to share the garden. Yes, it's lovely if neighbours can accommodate the occasional request but suspect Penelope basically wants you to give her the whole garden for her own personal use.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 29/06/2019 21:01
Shock
EastCoastDamsel · 29/06/2019 21:02

@northernruth I totally missed that Blush

Agree. Fence ALL THE WAY. The higher the better Wink

StoneofDestiny · 29/06/2019 21:05

Eek - think I ticked the wrong answer. Anyway you are NBU - but you are expecting a rational outcome from someone who is not rational. If she want more privacy that she is entitled to she needs to buy blinds.

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/06/2019 21:16

Stone
I think you’ve just told us why there is a very small percent of YABU. 😁 I did the same thing on another thread.

chemenger · 29/06/2019 21:20

if you have accidentally voted the wrong way you can change your vote by clicking on the other button.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 29/06/2019 21:20

Samuel is at Glastonbury with Nora and Pancake.

😂😂😂

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 29/06/2019 21:21

He'd better be covering their ears, Noel Gallagher is on right now...

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 29/06/2019 21:22

Liam I mean. Noel nowhere to be seen!

BoomBoomsCousin · 29/06/2019 21:38

A fence is the solution they need. You don't need it, so don't go to the expense of it unless you have really strong opinions on what sort of fence you'd like there.

Tell Samuel that you have tried compromise and it clearly isn't sufficient to appease Penelope so you think it would be best if you fell back on the legal position. You will no longer consider the garden shared and you won't be sticking to a schedule of when you use the garden. And, of course, they are entitled to make whatever legal adjustments to their property they need to to ensure the level of privacy they'd like.

Then stick your fairy lights up in your bit of garden and get on with enjoying your property.

YABU only in that you have allowed them to make Penelope's issues your problem to fix. They aren't. Penelope and Samuel need to solve their problems, at their own cost, not at yours. (None of which is advocacy for not trying to do normal neighbourly things, but your NDNs are asking you to limit your perfectly normal enjoyment of your home so that they can have a home that is more private than the one they bought).

PersonaNonGarter · 29/06/2019 21:53

Don’t put up a fence.

That’s just not needed and will be stressful for both parties.

You do need to delineate your space though. There are so many neat garden design ideas that could resolve this - think mirror facing house flanked by narrow trees, or spaced planters with tallish things in them.

I would definitely definitely get fairy lights tho.

IsobelElsie123 · 29/06/2019 22:00

erect some fencing, get put the farrow and ball colour chart and leave Penelope to suck it up . Leave the whassap group!

TitianaTitsling · 29/06/2019 22:08

But Penelope hasn't given a fig how stressful she's made things for op?

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/06/2019 22:13

That’s because she is lacking awareness and perspective.

Whosorrynow · 29/06/2019 22:13

I live in an apartment block which has shared grounds but we all agree that they are ornamental and no one uses it because it wouldn't be fair on the people who live on the ground floor to have others right outside their windows

HundredMilesAnHour · 29/06/2019 22:30

I live in an apartment block which has shared grounds but we all agree that they are ornamental and no one uses it because it wouldn't be fair on the people who live on the ground floor to have others right outside their windows

This sounds very civilised. Unfortunately the apartment block where I live is not like this and there are a couple of families who literally sit (and let their children play) right outside some of the ground floor flats windows/doors. It's really selfish, especially when there is actually a decent sized garden area they could use. Wish we had a couple of Penelopes living in these flats so they'd complain and something might be done about it. But the residents are shrinking violets who are unhappy but refuse to speak up publicly. Totally different situation to the OP who has been more than reasonable.

LouJJersey · 29/06/2019 22:36

Two things:

  1. She’s uptight
  2. Shared gardens very rarely work in my experience .... if you’re not prepared to be flexible. She’s not flexible therefore it’s not going to work
dustyparadeground · 29/06/2019 23:03

PMSL ...she sounds like a lot of fun. One of you needs to move out

Jellicoe · 29/06/2019 23:06

Next months issue would be that she cant have a poo because you are in the garden. Wtf. Put up that fence. It's your property and your right to enjoyment of it.

Jellicoe · 29/06/2019 23:07

Plant some clumping bamboo as a divider?

Whosorrynow · 29/06/2019 23:09

Unfortunately the apartment block where I live is not like this and there are a couple of families who literally sit (and let their children play) right outside some of the ground floor flats windows/doors
this is the set up with one block across the road from me, during the summer months that family decamps to the shared garden and the whole street is treated to daily display of their private lives, trampolines, the whole 9 yards.

(I do get that the wider problem is the lack of affordable housing for families, children do need outdoor spaces etc)

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