Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Trudij123 · 29/06/2019 19:24

AAAARGH!! I thought I’d pressed to reply/quote a post - I was responding to the gnome wall suggestion - the big ones that are in Asda at the moment, and all facing the downstairs flat....

Nanalisa60 · 29/06/2019 19:28

Penelope sounds as mad as a box of frogs!! It’s a shared garden !! Sounds like she has ideas of grandger !! She thinks she has bought a house and not a flat!! Your a better woman then me I would have told her to go bit my arse by now!!

TooManyPaws · 29/06/2019 19:32

Flipping heck. I lived for years in a tenement flat with a huge garden - even more so as there wasn't a boundary between us and the next block. The garden/drying green was shared except for each flat having a bit at the side to have a shed and our own washing lines on the grass. There were never any problems over the sharing except there were a few raised eyebrows when someone in the next block brought their snakes out to sunbathe with them...

caringcarer · 29/06/2019 19:32

If she is worried you can see into her French doors she should put up blinds. Penelope sounds hard work. I would direct all future communication to Samuel and put up a fence.

Somersetlady · 29/06/2019 19:35

Fence the garden.

If you continue to share the garden eventually they may have a claim on your garden as they have been using it for a certain number of years. Check out the land law with your solicitor.

bubblegumunicorn · 29/06/2019 19:42

Penelope needs blinds/curtains simple don’t want to be overlooked? Close them done 🙄 she’s totally batshit!

JaneEB · 29/06/2019 19:45

I, like others on here, think they are trying to claim the whole garden for their own.

You need some form of screen so they cannot complain about you using YOUR garden.

If you let them get away with this they will possibly try eventually to claim adverse possession of your garden, you have to keep using it as you wish, hope you manage to have a nice barbecue this weekend.

partofyoupoursoutofme · 29/06/2019 19:51

In your shoes I'd be claiming my part of the garden and blocking Penelope on WhatsApp. Deal with Samuel until he leaves and just ignore her. You are not responsible for her mental health, she is being extremely unreasonable.

Hodge00079 · 29/06/2019 19:51

While I have sympathy for people with anxiety etc it is not your problem. It sounds to me as if you have been as accommodating as you can. Perhaps too much. Unless this is a sudden MH issue she should have thought about shared garden and its issues when she moved in.

I would say the shared garden obviously isn’t working. I suggest we put a fence up and go halves on the cost. If you put a fence up she will probably moan that is not the type she would like or something else. I think you would need some sort of deadline through. If there hasn’t been agreement in that period put one up yourself. They can’t say they didn’t have fair warning.

Also the noise issue sounds a bit like bordering on harassment. I would be keeping a diary, especially when it couldn’t possibly have been you making the noise.

MamaMumMama · 29/06/2019 20:01

Your neighbour has issues, it is not unreasonable for you to use your garden and she cannot dictate when you can or can't use it. The best thing would be to divide it and put a fence up, perhaps she's told her friends they own the whole garden. Go down the legal route of getting it marked on the deeds though if you reach an agreement

Starlight456 · 29/06/2019 20:03

I would also erect a fence day it eliminates any further discussion on the subject.

I think it’s batshit you can’t watch Tv when you want . Yes consideration for neighbours but they are not your parents telling you bedtime and how much screen time you can have

Ndotto · 29/06/2019 20:05

Penelope is utterly batshit, but also massively self centred and entitled. Poor bloody Samuel, he must have a life of total misery.

INeedAFlerken · 29/06/2019 20:13

Fence vote here.

oatmilk4breakfast · 29/06/2019 20:15

Say trellis and both pay for honeysuckle or other climbing plant - you can buy ones that are already established - that will look prettier than a fence

Julia123321 · 29/06/2019 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn.

TitianaTitsling · 29/06/2019 20:27

As long as the fence is on ops land Penelope has no say ld have thought?

EastCoastDamsel · 29/06/2019 20:29

I really don't agree with a fence. Once you put up a fence (at your cost), I can guarantee you will face issues accessing your part of the garden through theirs as soon as this is erected.

This is a shared garden, to be used as such. You are withing your legal and moral rights to use this garden whenever you please as long as it is reasonable. It is DEFINITELY NOT reasonable.for Penny and S.to restricct you access by employing emotional blackmail whether or not they find it convenient for you to excercise your rights.

Please please please do not put up a fence without a legally binding access agreement and do not back down.

They are trying to procure sole access to the garden by stealth (whether intention ally or unintentionally) and it will reduce the value of your home if you.gove in to them

EastCoastDamsel · 29/06/2019 20:30

PS I agree with all other posters who have said they they should not have bought a flat with a shared garden if they wanted a private one

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/06/2019 20:33

Penelope doesn’t want you to use your part of the garden during the day because she can’t cook or do the washing. And she doesn’t want you to use it in the evening either.

#teamfence
But you do need to make sure every single part of it is on your land.

Erect the fence carefully otherwise there could be legal repercussions. The only person really qualified to know exactly where the fence is supposed to go, is a surveyor.

northernruth · 29/06/2019 20:35

I'm wondering if Samuel has recently booked a skiing holiday with his mates........

I'd tell them to cease and desist or you'll put a fence up. Then put a fence up.

Hodge00079 · 29/06/2019 20:36

Oh another thing I would put a fence up, not just say you will. A reasonable person may think I am going to come off worse here. They will see their part will be smaller. It would probably make them back off with these unreasonable requests.

Thing is your neighbour will not see it like that. They might go quiet for a short period. Then before you know it they are at it again.

I would keep communicating via app/e-mail. That way it is documented.

Debenhamshandtowel · 29/06/2019 20:36

Samuel is at Glastonbury with Nora and Pancake.

northernruth · 29/06/2019 20:36

@EastCoastDamsel it's not a shared garden tho, they each have half

ChippingInLowCarbing · 29/06/2019 20:39

Etteloc- You are both being unreasonable

WTAF???

How on Earth is the OP being unreasonable???

BoudiccaKate · 29/06/2019 20:43

Samuel sounds better and better.