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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
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14
Grumpelstilskin · 29/06/2019 12:45

It really isn’t OP’s issue though if Penelope has ‘issues’. Seriously, since when do people get to be CFs and dictate to neighbours due to ‘personal stuff’. It has nout to do with anyone else. And it seems to very often overlap with CFs trying to dictate to others, as well as pushing their own agenda, in this case, having the sole use of the garden. If Penelope cannot cope with the realities of the property, then she needs to fuck off.

BackOnceAgainWithABurnerEmail · 29/06/2019 12:51

This is why I wouldn’t have given them my number - you want to talk to me you come and talk to me face to face. No snippy pass-ag messages and bossiness. Likewise notes, leave me a note I’ll come and knock to discuss.

They’ve been really unreasonable. That garden if yours and you get to use it.

RiftGibbon · 29/06/2019 13:03

If they wanted a private garden then they should have looked for a property with one.
Penelope needs to put up blinds or curtains if seeing people outside bothers her so much. She also sounds as though she needs help with her anxiety.
The best way forward would be to put up a fence, but you'll need to make sure it's correctly on the boundary by checking the deeds. If there is no official line on who owns which part of the garden then I suspect you'll need to get something drawn up.
So far you've bent over backwards to accommodate her.

AlexaAmbidextra · 29/06/2019 13:04

To be fair I'd hate that too as whenever you use the garden you're right outside their flat

But OP isn’t just outside their flat. The far end of the garden is hers.

Juells · 29/06/2019 13:05

LakieLady - or buying a house near a church and objecting to the bells.

DeegeeDee · 29/06/2019 14:02

Fence and ignore P&S from now on.

highlandcoo · 29/06/2019 14:43

This thread reminds me so much of issues DD had with neighbours who lived below the first flat she bought. A converted house with one flat in the cellar, one on the ground floor (DD) and one on the first floor. but no soundproofing; they were effectively living in the same house but with separate entrances.

The couple underneath started by complaining about the wooden floors (original, already in place, beautiful and the reason she bought the flat), so after several complaints we paid for large rugs. They then moved on to complaining about DD walking about, asked her not to watch TV late in the evening and it got ridiculous when they wanted her to commit not to hoover, have the radio on or use the washing machine at the time of their baby's morning nap.

DH and I got involved when DD started to receive texts if she accidentally dropped a pound coin or a pen. She once dropped and broke a mug and he came around and banged on the door in a fury.

What she did wrong, in retrospect, was trying to pacify these neighbours. They should have been told from the start that she would live her life in a reasonable fashion With a fair amount of consideration for neighbours, but the more she bent to their demands the crazier they got.

I did feel sorry for his wife as she seemed very anxious, and tried to talk to her nicely about the fact that young babies can sleep through everyday noise and should learn to do so but she wasn't prepared to consider anything but total silence while her child slept. Much as in the OP's situation, there were some anxiety issues but this was leading to very unreasonable behaviour on their part.

We ended up having a meeting where DH and I said we would be instructing a lawyer to warn him against harassing her, and I also told him that we would be moving DD out to live with us for six months and we would be renting out her flat and choosing tenants carefully who wouldn't be intimidated. Something along the lines of a couple of large Australian rugby players rather than one young woman on her own.

All very stressful and unpleasant. Very shortly afterwards he got a job in Dubai. God were we all delighted!

We and DD should have been much tougher from the start though. So OP no more pandering. Take control, remain polite but don't be bullied. You know your rights so exercise them.

NigellaAwesome · 29/06/2019 15:04

I'm on team fence and like sleep warrior's suggested wording.

Great diagram. Could you add measurements and orientation for completeness?

GotToGoMyOwnWay · 29/06/2019 15:07

Not sure the op is coming back to update

HorridHenrysNits · 29/06/2019 15:16

Maybe she's enjoying the sun in her garden!

YoThePussy · 29/06/2019 16:23

Anyone else been out today to buy solar fairy lights and put them up? Sitting admiring my rainbow ones and excitedly waiting for it to get dark.

whitehalleve · 29/06/2019 16:28

Fence it off. She shouldn't have purchased this type of property. You've done nothing wrong!

Debenhamshandtowel · 29/06/2019 17:14

I had complaints from downstairs neighbours once, because I had three (Billy) bookcases...

ButterscupsRevenge · 29/06/2019 17:27

if she wants a private garden she should rent a house, tell her to jog on shes disturbing you and your mum and her washing isnt upset you're sat outside

Ivestoppedreadingthenews · 29/06/2019 17:33

Just get a fence.

nuxe1984 · 29/06/2019 17:38

Youve8every right to use your part of the garden and I should imagine all this is making you feel a bit trapped in your flat and that you can't use the garden in case it causes problems.

They shouldn't have bought a flat with s shared garden without considering the consequences. They're lucky you're not in your half every evening/weekend having bbq!!!

You need to put up a barrier between the gardens. Not necessarily a fence, trellis with some plants growing up it will work.

Palma1 · 29/06/2019 17:41

Put up a fence so you can use your area freely. Penelope sounds bat shit crazy.

Fairylighting · 29/06/2019 17:42

Sorry! Am here! Just mad busy day! No update but will reply later. Thank you all for helpful advice... thinking a fence of some sort may be inevitable.

OP posts:
ButterscupsRevenge · 29/06/2019 17:46

Reminds me of a time my neighbour collared me and complained about a scratching noise late at night that was bothering there sleep. I politely asked if it was perhaps there own dog who cried and barked continuesly from 9/10pm til 2/3am every night as that had been bothering us and waking up ds since they moved in, have a nice afternoon bye. Dont let them bully you love stand your ground

kidsmakesomuchwashing · 29/06/2019 17:47

Put the fence back up accept the smaller garden it will be way less hassle than your neighbour!

Tistheseason17 · 29/06/2019 17:47

Yep, fence it off. She wants the entire garden and you clearly have the best bit she wants.

Sort yourself out and put yourself first She might not live there forever and best to get things set how you want them for the long term. Her next BF may not be so nice.

BrienneofTarthILoveYou · 29/06/2019 17:50

Agree with everyone else Op - stand your ground and don't be bullied by them anymore & definitely put up a fence.

EastCoastDamsel · 29/06/2019 17:55

Absolutely DO NOT agree to not use the garden at their request. And get legal advice. Agreeing to only using it when convenient to them may amount to a relinquishing of your rights.

celticprincess · 29/06/2019 17:59

Where we live there are flats that have the upstairs uses/owns the front garden and the downstairs has the back garden. The back gardens are huge and the upstairs people don’t have this luxury and get loans off the downstairs people for their washing hanging outside their front door. The downstairs people also often moan when the upstairs people don’t keep their garden looking nice as it spoils the front of their home.

Personally I think this is the weather to start sitting out in your bikini with a large drink, even a paddling pool.

People shouldn’t buy flats if they can’t tolerate others. My ex used to have a downstairs flat and I would pit my kids to bed one night a week there whilst he was at work and the upstairs bloke would get his guitar out and practise just as the kids were trying to sleep. Singing and taping foot to the best included. My ex said this went on most nights.

Whosorrynow · 29/06/2019 17:59

I would sell up to some raucous party goers

seriously though, Penny isnt cut out for the shared garden set up