I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

[Fairylighting]

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

mrex these are particularly delightful, no?

direct.asda.com/george/outdoor-garden/garden-ornaments/D33M06G01,default,sc.html

They're cute @EssentialHummus, perhaps interspersed with some character pieces like this guy:
www.etsy.com/uk/listing/223092688/evil-gnomes-drinky?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_uk_en_gb_c-home_and_living-other&utm_custom1=9ab97694-6fa9-4dfb-b2a7-8d471e9c32f1&utm_content=go_325950288_20231986368_88478218368_pla-106550423075_m__223092688engb&gclid=CjwKCAjwmNzoBRBOEiwAr2V27eMSkmMJe_UDjlm4NvGOwES-zo5kNQqoq1VZPFS7g_5CM1AcFjF_WxoCEygQAvD_BwE

gotto me too. They’re not the cheapest and need posts but provide quite a good bit of privacy without blocking all light etc.

Friend of mine lives around lots of these divided gardens and those trellis/slats have become the norm.

How big actually is the garden? What size would your half be?

Re the disputes, I think the point is that OP would benefit from this being nipped in the bud now, before it turns into something that would impose a legal duty on her to declare.

Some of these masterpieces made from old tyres? You can plant some nasturtiums.... then you can throw them at her and when Penelope says “Oi! Wotcha doin?” You can answer “I’m casting nasturtiums, of course!!!” (*I didn’t sleep well.... so sorry for the pun!)

After Penelope's entitled behaviour I would be putting up a fence sharpish.

Also, could Penelope and Samuel object to a fence being erected after a certain number of years, citing curtailment of enjoyment of their garden?

Re the disputes, I think the point is that OP would benefit from this being nipped in the bud now, before it turns into something that would impose a legal duty on her to declare.

I get that, but the OP hasn't actually done anything wrong. It's her garden too and she's entitled to use it. This issue is quite literally all in her neighbor's head.

I actually think that doing nothing is the best approach. Don't get involved in lengthy discussions, don't share schedules and stuff. Just use the garden as you would any communal space. Don't put up solar fairy lights either.

The issue cannot be escalated if the OP does nothing.

Also, could Penelope and Samuel object to a fence being erected after a certain number of years, citing curtailment of enjoyment of their garden?

From my hazy memory of land law this is 12/20 years and there are requirements for it that I can usefully only remember in Latin.

Fresh air drying is lovely in the summer leaving aside being darked on and spider willies.

What the fuck? Don't want to de-rail the thread --- but spider willies???

Pineapplejelly and tomatostottie many threads ago there was a poster who wouldn’t hang her washing in the garden in case spiders walked across it dragging their willies over her smalls. I think it was more an issue of being scared of spiders which is fair enough.

Anyone else got an ear worm on this

Another vote for private fence!

Has @Fairylighting gone?

From my hazy memory of land law this is 12/20 years and there are requirements for it that I can usefully only remember in Latin.

Could you Google Translate the Latin, Hummus?

I'd drop them a note along the lines that SleepWarrior suggested, but without inviting their input into the kind of fence you put up, OP.

Before you decide, I'd suggest you put some bamboo canes of verying heights along the boundary, so you can work out how high the fence can go without putting too much of your garden in the shade.

And if I wanted fairy lights, any other sort of lights, wind chimes or a nice water feature that made wee-inducing trickling sounds all day long, I'd bloody have them. Hell, I'd want lights on the stairs to the garden too, so that I could see where I was stepping after dark.

Her problem not yours, she is trying to deny you your enjoyment of your home. Ignore. It will go away.

Looking at the voting, I think the majority have decide Penelope is mad.

Without a shadow of a doubt I’d be putting a fence up forthwith. I’d not be debating it with them either - it is YOUR space and you are not being unfair. She’s caused the problem. Anxiety isn’t an excuse for being a dickhead and bullying people and I say that as someone with crippling anxiety.

I cannot stand people who buy houses then moan about a fact they already knew was unchangeable. Eg our neighbours who moved into a house surrounded by kids and then moaned at us letting our kids play in the garden (not early or late and not screeching and no balls over the fence every 2 seconds etc).

Of course the OP has done nothing wrong. That's a given. Its just her non-wrongdoing isn't relevant to the issue of how best to protect her entitlement to her garden and the value of her property. Because the issue absolutely can be escalated if OP does nothing. P very clearly feels a sense of entitlement to the garden, best all round to nip that in the bud now.

Please protect the value of your investment and get that fence up.

#teamfence

I cannot stand people who buy houses then moan about a fact they already knew was unchangeable.

This happens round our way when people buy houses near pubs. There have been at least 3 such situations that I know of, where the new owners have objected to licence renewals, tried to get pub gardens closed down or, on one occasion, stopped a pub having live music 2 nights a week.

In the final scenario, the couple objected because they come down here at weekends to get some peace and quiet. They didn't even actually live here! They got their way and sold the house less than 18 months later, but it was too late then. What had been a cracking high street local and music venue is now a gastropub used almost entirely by outsiders.

I saw a brilliant idea in some mall new build houses recently. It was a wire fence with ivy growing up it - the ivy had completely covered it so it looked and felt like a thick hedge, very pleasant on the eye, but was only an inch wide!

PS I think the OP mentions Penelope suffers from mental illness.
Insults about her being mad are not appropriate. We are trying to reduce the stigma of mental illness in this country.