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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
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skybluee · 28/06/2019 22:57

Definitely fence it. Imagine having your own space - no timetables, no demands, free to come and go any time you want without worrying about anyone else, it will be amazing, and just in time for summer. You can do up your garden and create a real private space. Will be much better. You probably will use it way more too as you won't have to worry about her.

Personally, I'd go for as much privacy as possible and get a solid six foot fence. I just think it would be better not seeing them in the garden, and them not seeing you. Less awkward and also they probably will complain less about things in your garden. I actually think this will help her as if she can't do laundry and washing up or use part of her apartment because you're in the garden, she feels looked in on, and that would actually stop that.

My apartment has two rooms that are looked in and I used to feel quite uncomfortable and like i was in a goldfish bowl, it was very difficult especially as with one, when I was sat on my bed, it was in direct line of sight of the lounge of the other apartment, and with the other room, just in front of the wardrobe (about half of the room) was in line of sight of their apartment too, and often I'd get changed without thinking or come out of the shower and it meant I was unable to relax. I finally got the film that you put on, I went for an expensive one with a cube pattern and omg it has transformed it beyond belief. It looks so professional but more than that, I can finally relax, I can't emphasise enough the difference it has made. I left a bit at the top free so I can still see the sky, trees and see out, which is nice, but blocking off their ability to see in has changed things for me massively. I wish I'd done it years ago, it's so much better.

So she may well find she feels like that.

I'd seriously go for it, a garden is an amazing thing and I think you'll get so much more out of it once it's a private garden for you.

Good luck!

BackforGood · 28/06/2019 23:14

Thing is, they don't want a fence @BackforGood, they still want to use the whole garden, but also dictate when, how and if the OP gets to use it too.

Yes, but that's not an option.

If I were OP, I would just not do anything for now, but if she complained again, then I would calmly say that, if it bothers her (as in P) so much, then the two options are i) carrying on as you are - as the flats / gardens were when you both bought, and as you agreed when you both moved in or ii) P putting a fence up to divide it where the legal boundary is. Totally up to them, but I wouldn't be stopping using my own garden because P didn't like seeing me there (other than in exceptional circumstances like them wanting a BBQ for a birthday or something, as long as the agreement was two way.)

There's no way I'd be going to the trouble and expense when I was happy with the garden as it is.

Butterymuffin · 28/06/2019 23:48

I'm also in the 'Just use the garden exactly as you wish' camp rather than the fence camp.

itscallednickingbentcoppers · 28/06/2019 23:54

I would fence it just to annoy Penelope.

Tavannach · 28/06/2019 23:58

Fence. Stops all the fuss forever. You have your garden, they have theirs, and you're not passing on a problem when you (or they) come to sell.

Osirus · 29/06/2019 00:13

On a serious note OP, despite what your deeds say if this shared access continues long term it could create problems if you ever decide to sell the flat. If there is a defined boundary on your deeds, you need to define it on the ground some way, even with shrubs, and only use your part.

I would do this for the sake of future issues, not just your current problems with this neighbour. Everyone is happier with clear boundaries.

YoThePussy · 29/06/2019 05:17

I wouldn’t be having any truck with this rota nonsense for using the garden. Gardens are an extra room and I use mine daily for sitting in, eating in, etc. In the hot weather I eat breakfast and supper outside. Certainly couldn’t handle having to check if it was my turn or not.

6 foot solid fence now OP, you know it makes sense. Don’t have one with knotholes or Penelope will knock those out and then say you are peeping through at her.

BustedDreams · 29/06/2019 05:51

If Penelope wants to use a garden as and when she wants, thereby trying to deny you your rightful use of said garden, she should buy/rent a property with its own garden!

Penelope will never change!

HeronLanyon · 29/06/2019 06:23

Sounds as though you’ve all been reasonable in the way you have tried to resolve things but Penelope’s anxiety (did you say depression also?) is making her unreasonably sensitive.
Sounds to me as though it might be time for a fence or trellis panel with climber to provide at least partial privacy.
I totally understand them not being enthused about fairy lights - another reason fence may be a good idea.
You’ve been extremely reasonable.

ContessaIsOnADietDammit · 29/06/2019 06:37

You need a couple of these OP - they let the light through and are readily removable, so are perfect. She is being massively UR.

www.homebase.co.uk/lattice-garden-planter-large_p421812

Isatis · 29/06/2019 06:40

They're very lucky that you're so accommodating - many neighbours would have told Penelope to get lost long ago. Sounds like Samuel is trying to keep the peace, though.

NauseousMum · 29/06/2019 06:54

They are unreasonable. Anxiety is awful, I've been there it's shit, but you cannot micromanage everything to reduce it. It doesnt work or help in long run. And just annoys your neighbours.

So when they tell you to stay out the garden they are using your grass area from the diagram? I would fence or put up a fast growing hedge. She gets privacy but can't take over your garden and force you out.

MidniteScribbler · 29/06/2019 07:07

Put a fence up. There are consequences for actions, and Penelope has to learn that pissing off her very accommodating neighbour now means she gets a small garden and a view of a fence. Tough shit Penelope.

SheStoodInTheStorm · 29/06/2019 07:11

Another #teamfence here!

I do think it's the only way to solve the issues and any future issues - you can then use your garden whenever you like....not when you're timetabled in!!!

GotToGoMyOwnWay · 29/06/2019 07:18

I’m also wondering if you ever want to sell & Penelope is still your neighbour you may have to declare her mad garden demands. (I may be wrong). So I’d definitely be looking at dividing without further ado! But I’d also go back to your original solicitor & ask them how you go about legally adjusting the deeds as you definitely want that reflected in the title documents.

Do keep us updated!

BeansandRice · 29/06/2019 07:19

Penelope and Samuel basically believe that they own the whole garden. Absolutely unfair and entitled. YANBU

AJPTaylor · 29/06/2019 07:22

I am a complaints manager
I have a rule of thumb which goes like this
"If the harder you try to make someone happy, the further away happiness gets, stop trying."

AJPTaylor · 29/06/2019 07:22

And put the fence up.

awesomeaircraft · 29/06/2019 07:26

YANBU. I see no-one has suggested it, but what about a fence?

Grin
justilou1 · 29/06/2019 07:28

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

longwayoff · 29/06/2019 07:34

PITA. Screen your garden and make sure the division is clear. You OWN your garden and she owns hers. If you don't do this there'll be ownership issues further along the line.

londonrach · 29/06/2019 07:38

Fence up and use your garden part. Dont use her bit and ask her not to use yours. Youve been too nice

RobinHumphries · 29/06/2019 07:42

Forget the fence, follow Trumps lead and build a wall!Grin

Juells · 29/06/2019 07:43

She's controlling you and her husband and everyone around her by waving her anxiety at you all. I wouldn't stand for it for a minute.

ContessaIsOnADietDammit Gosh, I love those, and they're so cheap!

SunniDay · 29/06/2019 07:54

If you are still reluctant to fence the garden or want a cheaper option you could plant a row of young hedge plants. It would mark out the boundary but be very unobtrusive for now. Over time it could be a 6 foot hedge but it would be gradual and literally creep up on them. Obviously there is the danger that they could cut them down or continually trim them to keep them low but you don't seem to actually mind the shared aspect so much as long as you can use your garden. Do resolve to use it whenever you like though - no more timetabling your own use.