I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

[Fairylighting]

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

Penelope isn't a sharer. She likes the idea but not the reality. You need to erect a physical barrier so that you can each enjoy privacy and also reclaim your territory. Keep the lights over your side and she'll have nothing to complain about.

Great diagram

Get a fence is the new cancel the cheque!

Yep. Fence along boundary.

Yep. P's mental health isn't your problem but to avoid exacerbating it, and to give you a lovely private garden, get the fence or screening plants. You can make it beautiful as you will have 4 sides to put plants etc

My uncle lives in an almost identical set up.

He and his husband live in the basement flat and his neighbour live in the flat above of a converted Victorian house.

His garden has the stairs from the other flat over it and there is a fence so whoever comes down the stairs by the time they get to the ground they are at their side of the fence.

As far as I'm aware there has never been an issue.

Op you are more than reasonable tolerating her most unreasonable behaviour.
She sounds a nightmare.

Ok - I've seen the diagram now. Well obviously you have the better part of the garden - that's why she wants to use it all the time. Her bit seems to be smaller and not as nice.
But your part belongs to you and not to her. She shouldn't have bought the flat if she didn't like the part of the garden that belonged to her flat.

When is the fence going up?

She needs net curtains or to move. I would suggest you both get 4 days a year of exclusive garden use and otherwise continue as before being courteous but it's your garden too

Lawnzilla!
Garden-gate!

I've been desperate to post my suggested names for this thread's problem, since I began reading the first page 😂

Source a pleasant but solid (no gaps) fence and have it put in fast. Preferably when she's at work, if she works.

Because otherwise she will most likely issue a constant string of demands on what she wants your fence to look like, and exactly where she wants it put.

At first I thought if Penelope wants a private garden then she should pay for a fence to be put up but actually having read the thread now I think it will be impossible for you to feel relaxed and at home in your garden unless you get a fence up .

I think the fence needs to be taller than people's heads but you don't want to deliberately block all their light so the top could be trellis. If privacy issues continue with a trellis top you could easily and cheaply attach bamboo screening or grow plants. How can you relax in your garden knowing she is watching/seething/ crying about it. You can't surely.

I think a private garden would add to the value of your flat and I think if Penelope was in your position she would screen her garden from your "prying eyes".

Op you sound very considerate and who knows if Penelope has MH issues or is being dramatic.

I feel a fence is the way forward, I guess it depends on what your landlord says?

They both are owners and own half the garden each Xyzzzzz. So OP can erect a fence no problem if it’s on her side of the boundary.

Just echoing everyone else- put a fence up!

OP, do they use the garden?

#teamfence

As PP have said, fence, windchimes, water feature and a radio for the bedroom.

And possibly Samuel? He sounds reasonable and deserves better than batshit penelope.

followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking.

I've read 13 pages, trying to find out how you and your Mum having a cuppa in the garden is preventing them either cooking or doing laundry, but still don't know.

Nor can I understand why so many people are telling the OP to put a fence up. Surely it is up to the people who are bothered by the original arrangement to put a fence up if that is what they want. Why should the OP be burdened with the expense / work to get it done ?

Obviously it must be difficult for P + S if P is struggling with her mental health, but that really isn't the responsibility of the OP, as she is just sitting having a cuppa with her Mum, not having 20 people round for a BBQ on a weekly basis.

Garden-gate!

FEEEEEEEEEEEEENCE!!

@HappyLoneParentDay - what the fuck are you talking about?

Here's the post you reported:

Please do come back and tell us how she reacts when you put up the fence. My guess is she'll be madder than a wet cat - what she really wants is to scare you off and have the whole garden to herself, the spoilt cow

No mention of or allusion to mental health conditions whatsoever. In the phrase "madder than a wet cat", the word mad is very obviously used to mean "angry" rather than "insane". I don't think the bloody woman IS ill, I think she's a spoilt cow who wants the whole garden to herself.

So in a thread full of people calling this woman a nutter, batshit, crazy etc, do explain why you felt the need to single out and report my post which doesn't reference mental health in any way at all?

You could even apologise if you wanted to

You’ve been way more tolerant of this nonsense than many. The next time she starts going on, tell her very firmly that her decision to live in a ground floor flat overlooking a shared garden comes with inevitable drawbacks about privacy which require a degree of tolerance and compromise. You are the one doing all of the bending to accommodate. Then fence the fucker off and put fairy lights EVERYWHERE within your half

In all seriousness, next time you see sensible Samuel suggest they consider voiles. Before I got my magic tablets I was a "Penelope" about people passing by. I was like a merecat and couldn't relax. Now I have put up voiles (billowy, classy like ) I am nothing like as on edge and I don't bother at every bloody leaf twitching outside. To be fair the tablets help but you can't sort that for her.

OP is putting voiles in Penelope's flat right now, got the drill and all to do put the holder up.

Showed Penelope the new fence plan before leaving backwards drill facing Penelope.

Next instalment required now. Where are you OP?

Surely it is up to the people who are bothered by the original arrangement to put a fence up if that is what they want.

Thing is, they don't want a fence @BackforGood, they still want to use the whole garden, but also dictate when, how and if the OP gets to use it too.

I used to live in a flat with this situation and I put a fence up. It really is the only way around it and actually if you sell on it will be much more valuable to have a private garden rather than a shared one with these boundary issues.