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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
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TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 28/06/2019 16:45

I would put the fence up with some lovely trellis your side - grow some clematis, etc and make the fence a feature of your garden. But you need to establish the legal separation of the two spaces so that you can put an end to all this nonsense of schedules and rotas and so on. The fence would also allow you to point out, quite rightly, that you are respecting her privacy.

stayathomer · 28/06/2019 16:48

HappyLoneParentDay

GreensleevesYour post making fun of MH conditions has been reported. You should be ashamed
Sorry if I missed something but this whole thread has people saying the neighbour is nuts and batshit, why did you pick out one person( I honestly don't think I've missed anything, sorry if I have)
OP I'd agree she's stressed becauseshe sees it and has told everyone it's her garden and is probably feeling claustrophobic. She needs her own garden but unfortunately thats not what she bought

Bluntness100 · 28/06/2019 16:49

Penelope shouldn't really have bought a house with a shared garden if a shared garden makes her uncomfortable should she

This is hugely valid but it's surprising how often people do it. They simply assume the neighbours won't use the garden so it will be basically theirs. Then the reality of having their neighbours sitting in the garden right outside their window hits and they realise it's awful.

There was someone on here a while ago, considering buying one, and a bunch of us were saying don't do it, you'll have your neighbours sitting right outside your living room window, and a bunch of other folks saying don't be daft no one will use it, even though there was a large number of blocks in thr flat. It was really quite ridiculous how many people actuallybelieved that.

People simply assume as it is at their level, others won't use it. And that is seldom the case. Then the sense of entitlement and resentment arises, as in this case with Penelope and Samuel. They have clearly assumed that the op wouldn't use it and it would be basically their garden and now they've realised the op does wish to use it and it hugely invades their privacy. Samuel seems to realise it's unreasonable, but Penelope isn't going to let it go easily, probably flamed by her mental health.

Ohyesiam · 28/06/2019 16:52

While I’d hate to have Penelope ‘s level of anxiety, she is being unreasonable.
Especially as net curtains are so cheap.

TokyoSushi · 28/06/2019 16:52

Has anybody mentioned a fence?! That's what I'd do!

HappenedForAReisling · 28/06/2019 16:53

This picture is from a link Svalberg posted. I think it's the perfect solution.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden
REllenR · 28/06/2019 16:53

As it's a couple of weeks since they replied I'd personally not yet get a fence but continue using my side only (lights and all) during this beautiful weather and move to the fence plan if/when she asks you to leave the garden again.

I used to live in a large property with a shared garden for 6 flats and we never had any issues so it can work fine.

PeoniesarePink · 28/06/2019 16:55

Just get a fence, for your sake and hers. And don't debate it or talk it through - it's your legal space, check the deeds and put the fence on your side of the boundary line.

She won't like it, but tough shit.

MythicalBiologicalFennel · 28/06/2019 16:55

As soon as I read your OP I thought your neighbour has MH issues. When my anxiety was at its worst I would overreact massively to normal levels of noise and try to control my surroundings. I remember going to a cafe, asking for something and bursting into tears when they told me they'd run out.

So it is not the garden or your use of it that is causing your neighbour's problems. You are doing nothing wrong. Her fixation is a symptom of something else -anxiety, depression, etc - that she needs to sort out. You cannot help her.

You need a fence. You are within your rights and it will help the present situation and probably enhance the future resale value of your flat.

Cwtches123 · 28/06/2019 16:56

Time to split the garden officially - sharing isn't working

Lindy2 · 28/06/2019 17:00

Sharing the garden isn't working out. Go back to having your own halves. A lightweight trellis screen would provide privacy without causing too much shade.
Then happily enjoy your own private outdoor space, fairy lights and all.

Piglet89 · 28/06/2019 17:01

She is very obviously trying to use emotional blackmail on you, OP, perhaps even with the end goal that they have exclusive use of your shared garden!

Insane.

simonisnotme · 28/06/2019 17:03

get a trellis as ^^pp poster said
sharing stuff never ends well

GotToGoMyOwnWay · 28/06/2019 17:11

Well I’d hate to state the bleeding obvious but Grin get a fence!

She may have mh issues or she may just be a cf.

ddl1 · 28/06/2019 17:12

YANBU. She is, especially as she not only bought a house with a shared garden, but then agreed with you to continue to share it, and only after that, made all sorts of stipulations. I would put up a fence just to keep the peace, even though it reduces your space. But really it's her problem if she's that sensitive to the presence of other people outdoors; she could put up net curtains or blinds to maintain her privacy if she's that worried.

rainbowunicorn · 28/06/2019 17:24

I would just go ahead and get the fence put up now. This issue will just continue if you don't. Even if this is all being caused by your neighbour having mental health problems it should not be allowed to control how you live your life.
As it has been two weeks now with no response I would send an email to say that you have arranged for a fence to go up on your boundary. Make sure to say that you are only informing them as a courtesy so that they know work will be getting done.
Make sure that you are not even a mm over on to their side when the fence goes up and that the 'nice side' faces them.
Then ignore any further communication about the garden. If she doesn't like it then too bad, we all have to live alongside others and put up with things we would rather not but hey ho that is just the way things are.

MzHz · 28/06/2019 17:27

You have been absolutely amazingly reasonable

Penelope May be experiencing some issues atm, but her H needs to explain to her that her issues do not mean she can tell others how to live their lives when they literally aren’t doing anything wrong.

I suggest some of those movable screens that look like fences/trellis with the planing boxes built in. It would create a screen and still preserve the space sympathetically

SleepWarrior · 28/06/2019 17:27

I really feel for Penelope as disproportionate reactions to noise and (perceived) invasions of space can be massively distressing when your mental health is in a bad place. She probably can't see that see she is being disproportionate either. It doesn't sound like blackmail to me.

However, that doesn't make it something that you need to give in on as you have been perfectly patient and decent so far.

I think you need to decide what you would like to happen and then go from there. If you'd like to keep it separate then an email saying something like:

"Keeping the garden open was decided as a nice option where we could both take advantage of the space as a whole. We gave it a good go but it isn't making anyone happy and is eroding our relationship as neighbours - you feel overlooked and I feel like I'm not free to use a space I have a legal entitlement to. I have decided that we need to return to the boundaries as defined in the deeds so we so that we can both have free say over what happens in our own gardens. I will be looking into fences. If you would like to be part of the decision as to which fence and thus split the cost then do let me know by x date, otherwise I will go ahead and organise myself".

JemSynergy · 28/06/2019 17:31

I'd put up a fence. A 6ft one. I couldn't live with all the messages, meet-ups and demands. I would feel like I was living with my neighbour. I can also understand her point of view as I would hate someone sitting outside by my windows but what did she think was going to happen?

fedup21 · 28/06/2019 17:31

Have you suggested a fence?

flumpybear · 28/06/2019 17:37

Yes, as others have said I'd split the garden with fences and be done with them - ref the telly - surely they must be next door if you don't have a telly in your room ... if not then maybe headphones if you have loud telly volume?

HollowTalk · 28/06/2019 17:38

How big is the whole garden?

billy1966 · 28/06/2019 17:40

@Juells
Atta girl👍

sueelleker · 28/06/2019 17:44

That's what I thought YogaDrone. I knew someone who bought the first floor of a house with stairs like that, then later bought the ground floor as well.

ChilliAndRiceIsVeryNice · 28/06/2019 17:46

The problem with people like her is if you’re nice and accommodating and give an inch they realise they can take a mile.

The second she piped up with any kind of comment on your use of the garden, you should have replied with ‘I think we should get a fence installed so we can both enjoy the garden without having to clear it with one another. Let me know when a time suits to discuss’.

You should be taking that approach now.