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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
DragonforaMIL · 28/06/2019 16:14

*fairy lights

Girlicorne · 28/06/2019 16:15

YANBU. She sounds awful. keep using the garden, it is half yours!

Dontsweatthelittlestuff · 28/06/2019 16:15

Who gets to decide what is tacky or not?
Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it is tacky.
I have solar lights in my garden around my summer house. I have solar light up bees that hang from my trees and even the odd knome with a solar light on the top of his hat.
If you want fairy lights then bloody well have them.

Sandybval · 28/06/2019 16:17

She is being ridiculous, she might not like it but youre entitled to use your garden. A fence would probably be worse as it would block her french windows, but if she feels that strongly about it and is happy to pay for it and you wouldn't mind then I guess that's an option.

zafferana · 28/06/2019 16:17

Ill she may be, but to be blunt it really isn't your problem. Samuel does sound reasonable and clearly knows his wife has issues, but if I wasn't able to use my garden any time I wanted to, particularly in the summer, I'd be really fucked off. You bought that flat with the piece of garden because you wanted to have a garden. Now your downstairs neighbour is making it awkward for you to use it and demanding that you not use it for utterly ridiculous reasons like she feels she can't do her laundry when you're out there (WTAF????)

I'd just fence it. I'd tell them you're going to do it, say you wish to avoid further inconveniencing them, give Penelope the privacy she wants, and then that will be an end to it. I wouldn't want the ball-ache of having to negotiate every time I wanted to sit in my own bloody garden.

HappyLoneParentDay · 28/06/2019 16:19

@Greensleeves Your post making fun of MH conditions has been reported. You should be ashamed

ferretface · 28/06/2019 16:19

@AcrossthePond55, from OPs diagram it looks like they have a fire escape which has a balcony (above part of P+S' part of the garden), which then descends in stairs above P&S garden until it reaches the back part, which is OPs. So a lot of P&S part is unavoidably overlooked by the OP's access route.

P&S probably haven't replied because they know that a fence is not really in their interest if they want to maximise the feeling of light and space in their own part!

Heronwatcher · 28/06/2019 16:20

Fence. Situation will not improve however reasonable you are. I would also far rather have a small private garden than a large shared one. I do agree though that you need to be very firm about this though as she will absolutely find something else to complain about:

SchadenfreudePersonified · 28/06/2019 16:20

I do think the fairy lights might be a bit out of order as they will shine into the neighbours' flat.

I agree - they would be intrusive.

I would festoon the entire garden with them. (Keeps the chickens occupied Grin)

H2OH20Everywhere · 28/06/2019 16:21

Until you can get a fence up I'd make as much use of the garden as you can, but stick to your end and if you have chairs out there make sure they're facing away from the house. So you're not trying to antagonise her more than you will anyway, but at the same time you're not being bullied out of space which is rightfully yours.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 28/06/2019 16:21

he became adamant that my cat had learned to flush the toilet and had been doing so all day

And had it?

pollypenguin01 · 28/06/2019 16:24

Honestly I think a fence would actually be beneficial to your neighbours MH. It would take away all of this anxiety and the constant ‘are they looking in, I can see them watching me’ paranoia. She might not like it to begin with but I really think it would be the kind thing to do to take the decision out of her hands and put in a fence. It doesn’t have to be a solid 6ft’er but just something to give some privacy to each of you.
I really do believe she will eventually thank you for it.

DarlingNikita · 28/06/2019 16:28

PolkadotLollipop, the OP isn't entertaining 'in the part of the garden closest to the house' Hmm Her part of the garden is the back.

zafferana · 28/06/2019 16:30

You can quote this while you're building your fence:

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden
AcrossthePond55 · 28/06/2019 16:30

Got it @ferretface! Thanks. Shared gardens aren't a 'thing' where I live so I was having trouble picturing how it would work. Since OP has her own access to her part, I'd definitely fence it if I were her!

TitianaTitsling · 28/06/2019 16:31

Fence it- from experience of a 'shared' garden in similar property in Edinburgh- our Penelope popped up a pergola-thingy and decking underneath slap bang in centre of garden- with enough room for one sunlounger and side table, basically stealing the whole garden!!

TitianaTitsling · 28/06/2019 16:33

*he became adamant that my cat had learned to flush the toilet and had been doing so all day

And had it?*. He may have been a very big Ben Stiller fan and believed his films!

Cornettoninja · 28/06/2019 16:33

It’s a shame if Penelope does have MH issues but that isn’t your responsibility, especially not if it’s causing such a massive inconvenience to you. That’s too much to ask.

I wouldn’t go out of my way to antagonise her but I would put up a fence for definite now. There’s been too many issues already and it’s the only way to really put an end to it.

A nice compromise could be a lattice/trellis fence with some pretty climbing plants that would benefit both sides, but personally I’d just want an end to it.

BornInAThunderstorm · 28/06/2019 16:37

Christ she sounds batshit. If you humour this nonsense now, it will constantly escalate into you not putting lights on after 11pm or walking round your flat when she has visitors because they’ll realise she doesn’t own the whole house.
Definitely build one of these:

FENCEFENCEFENCEFENCEFENCE

NeverTwerkNaked · 28/06/2019 16:37

Clearly the solution is to put a fence up.

Yardley42 · 28/06/2019 16:39

Ooh, ooh - can't read and run on this one, as I live in exactly that set up, only I have the bottom flat. So mine is the front half of the garden and upstairs' the back half, down from their fire escape.

I am not quite so mad as Penelope, so I do not mind the inevitable noises that come from living under somebody else! That's flats / cities for you.

And I love my little garden - we have a small fence dividing the two halves, and a lovely tree that creates a cosy private-ish feeling space for me, just big enough for a table and chairs, and plant pots.

I have occasionally been wandering through my living room half dressed and they've been outside, oops! Blush But that's really on me.

If I wasn't selling the flat I did want to put up a higher fence - or trellis, really, that my jasmine plant could grow up - less for privacy but for the visual as their half of the garden is always a mess and mine's quite nice!

So, in conclusion, from experience - joining the general chorus of FENCE!

zafferana · 28/06/2019 16:40

Re: the height and construction of the fence - I'd go for a 6-ft solid one if I were you - otherwise this issue won't go away and Penelope will still say you can see into her home and again request that you're not out in your garden when they're home/entertaining/doing their laundry/whatever. They're welcome to plant some nice climbers up it if they think it's ugly, but I would want a complete separation that allows you to both use your gardens at the same time and where you can have fairy lights, if you want them, without them 'shining in their windows all night' Hmm. Seriously, we get on very well with our neighbours and we have a 6ft fence on top of 2ft gravel boards! Everyone wants privacy in their garden, even if they like their neighbours.

vampirethriller · 28/06/2019 16:42

She's a nutter is what's happened

ProfYaffle · 28/06/2019 16:42

We have friends who used to live in a flat with an identical set up - they were in the ground floor flat. Their garden had a hedge down the middle, worked really well. Each household could use their garden and barely be noticed by the other.

justasking111 · 28/06/2019 16:45

putting up a fence will cause areas of shade especially in a small garden. People down the road are going mad because new neighbour has put up fencing basically creating shaded areas in their garden which has caused their plants to die apparently.

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