Not telling dp about dd's periods

[Loveatthefiveanddime]

Not happened yet, this is hypothetical. It comes from a conversation with a male colleague at work, (for the record he is 29, childless, and very right-on).
He was saying that if his partner did not tell him when their imaginary future daughter started her periods, he would be gutted.
I argued that if a child has specifically requested that you 'don't tell dad' then you shouldn't as it is her body and her privacy?

In my case, I could imagine very well my dd saying that and actually I don't think it would be a huge deal for my partner as he would respect her privacy, but I am thinking it through now a it is probably quite imminent.

But AIBU? The male colleague was horrified, and said that a mum and dad should be absolutely united on everything and that means absolutely no secrets whatsoever.

but is already being affronted at the idea that he would be 'excluded' by not knowing everything about her menstrual cycle

do you see how you can’t help but exaggerate to support your position? A father knowing his daughter has started her period isn’t the same as knowing ‘everything about her menstrual cycle’. If you can’t make your point without creating a straw man, your point is weak.

I would be very concerned if a daughter didn't want her father to know that she'd started her period! If they have a good relationship with good communication, I agree with your colleague, the father should definitely be told.

I still remember my father sitting me down: "So Que, your mother tells me you're a woman now"

I've been trying to get my thoughts to make sense.

I think that a man's involvement in a girl or woman's periods is by and large a positive, but it has to happen at the invitiation of the girl or women in question, rather than at the insistance of the man.

(I've mentioned this before but I have real concerns that the doctrine that is INCLUSION is proving to have some rather unpleasant side effects. I wonder how many older men, who didn't grow up under this doctrine, would assume it is their place to automatically be told about an exclusively female bodily function?)

Basically - dads should know how to respond if and when they're daughters come to them - but they should not force their way in.

I was 10 when my periods started. I come from a very open household and I knew about periods from talking to my mum. She had explained where sanitary pads were kept and how to dispose of them ie. Bin and not down the loo. When they started I cried due to tummy ache and hormones and asked her not to tell my dad. She did, I heard her on the phone. When my dad got in from work he asked how I was feeling, got me a hot water bottle and bought me a bag of chips to make me feel better. He was concerned for me and had said to my mum that he hadn't wanted for me to have to go through it all so early. I did not feel embarrassed because my dad normalised it. He had a right to know as I was very much a child at the time they started, for practical reasons too as he always emptied bins and did the weekly shop. If however my dd asked me not to tell her dad I wouldn't but I would encourage her to tell him herself. I don't want her to feel embarrassed or ashamed of her period. I don't think it is a case of being unreasonable but dads should be equal parents and when it comes to their child's health have a right to know. How would you feel if your dh knew but you didn't? Is it not a good thing that a girl should be able to go to her dad to talk about anything?

And let's remember that for most young girls, periods are an inconvenience and don't involve mood swings, pain, vomiting, flooding, cravings for chocolate and the need to be pandered to by a father who has bought every cliche in the book.

Where did you stumble upon this idea? 80% of women and girls experience period pain, and for 10% it’s serious enough to prevent them living their lives as normal.

“And to be explicit I would argue that it is harmful to agree to this specific boundary because it is evidence of a serious problem (period shame) that needs loving parents to engage with and not ignore”

That really is bollocks. Sorry, but it is. Is a girl not wanting to get changed in front of her dad-or her mum- or anyone - evidence of body shame? We all accept that there comes a time when a child no longer wants to bathe with a parent or a sibling. Is that something we should be resisting too? What about wanting to shut the bathroom door? My dd asked me when she wanted to go on the pill-should I have said “Go and ask your dad”?

GabriellaMontez
zweifler this isn't about shame. It's about young teenage girls wanting some privacy.

Privacy by encouraging one parent to lie endlessly to their spouse for years over something that isn't shameful in the slightest?

Going shopping and hiding sanitary towels.

DD is sick - make up a lie

Brought her home from school early - make up a lie

Stomach is hurting - make up a lie

Vomiting - make up a lie

Just endlessly lying but, hey, it's not a big deal.

Oh, DD's unauthorized and sickness absences are pretty high on her yr8 report card. Better make up a lie to tell your father because we wouldn't want him to know about periods!!!! Or is he not allowed to look at her report cards because of sex based privacy rules?

And how long does this go on for? Since girls have perfect right to perfect privacy, is the mother supposed to lie forever. Are we still pretending she's not menstruating for the rest of her life? If the father suddenly realizes at 15 that his DD hasn't started her period (or he's not heard about it) is the mother supposed to pretend and say she hasn't. Fake doctor's trips? How far does this idiocy go?

And what message does this actually send? I'm sorry but it's completely ridiculous.

What if he guesses? Are we allowed to break the sex based home codes and actually talk to our own fathers? Gasp!!

80% of women and girls isn't the same as 80% of girls.

This is nothing to do with being trans!!!

FFS, why is 'trans' even being mentioned? That you would mention it is distinctly odd. If women talk about sex-based anything, is it automatically assumed that 'trans' is to the forefront of their minds? Trans anything didn't enter my head, this is about girls.

Unfortunately people here are arguing about a girls right to privacy. I only had to glance up a few posts to see

"dad's right to know"

I have the same thinking as cassian. It should be by invitation.

zweifler that's all a massive extrapolation. Asking for Dad not to be told when a girl's periods start does not means always keeping it from him.

What it is is allowing a girl to choose her own time and place to tell him. Chances are, if Mum honours her request, and the family are a decent family as most are, she will probably tell him fairly quickly. But in her time.

Why do you not wish to respect that?

“Privacy by encouraging one parent to lie endlessly to their spouse for years over something that isn't shameful in the slightest”

What do you mean lie?
And you are rather assuming that a) men are stupid and b) a girl asking for her father not to be told when her period starts is going to continue to conceal her periods until she leaves home. Which is a stretch. To put it mildly. It’s about the girl choosing her boundaries and when she wants to take them down.

80% of women and girls isn't the same as 80% of girls.

Are you trying to suggest girls don’t get period pain...?

Let’s do a straw poll on this thread - how many of us had to miss days of school because of period pain? I did - many of them, from the age of 12. Thank god my dad knew I had started having periods because more often than not he was the one who picked me up from school and bought me painkillers and sanitary towels.

And let's remember that for most young girls, periods are an inconvenience and don't involve mood swings, pain, vomiting, flooding, cravings for chocolate and the need to be pandered to by a father who has bought every cliche in the book.

Wow! You've got some real daddy issues. So caring parenting is pandering for you. Btw I asked for chocolate then and I'd ask for it now. because chocolate is delicious. I don't feel like I have to be embarrassed about liking chocolate just because it's associated with women but I didn't grow up in a home where we were ashamed of ourselves.

And I'm pretty sure that most young girls experience mood swings and pain, even if it's mild. My experience of growing up was that a lot of girls experienced much more discomfort than that but if you've got the data to disprove it, I'd love to see it.

80% of women and girls isn't the same as 80% of girls.

^^ this

I was never that inconvenienced - once in my teenage years I had a lot of pain, but it was just once. I had a cousin who made a huge hoohaa every time she had a period, everyone had to go running round making hot water bottles and not making noise in the house, but she was a drama queen. I'm not saying everyone who suffers with their periods is a drama queen, but she certainly was. I've also had friends who suffered a lot because they had endometriosis, but for most people periods aren't that debilitating and TBH I kinda resent that whole narrative, as it was always a stick that was used to beat women with, that they wouldn't be reliable in work because of 'women's problems'. Most women can cope with periods without fainting or writhing on the floor in pain.

There’s something else coming through on this thread in my opinion, and that is that if you’ve raised a female child in an environment where she’s so embarrassed about periods that she’s asking you to lie for her so it can stay secret, you’ve already let her down. And I think you only double down on that by agreeing to lie, instead of having a conversation about why it’s not something to be frightened or ashamed of.

There are always some women who think that because period pain wasn’t a big issue for them, it’s not a real thing

I think for me if you grow up where periods are normalised, so for example in my house, I'd mention when I have my period openly, things like "I've got my period" or "I've got the period shits" whatever, there was no mystery or secrecy about it,, it was not noteworthy, or a secret, it was part of normal conversation like "I need to go pee".

so my daughter grew up with periods being normalised in conversation, and as such it never occurred to her to keep it a secret from her father. Why would it. It would be like having to keep it secret you peed.

I do think if a girl gets her period and her immediate reaction is it needs to be kept secret and that her dad can't know, then something in the way she's been brought up has led her to have these thoughts. For me it's not a normal reaction.

For someone who accuses others of using strawmen, Vivienne , you're doing a cracking job of that yourself.

Your stat of 80 % was taken from the first search result in Google which specifies women AND girls and is qualified by 'at some point in their lives'

And if we're sharing personal experiences, I went to an all girls school, currently work in an all girls school, and have numerous female friends and family. The norm was certainly not to be in pain every month during the early years of menstruation.

And fuck off zweifler18 with your "daddy issues".

so, just to get this straight, both Vivienne and zweifler do not believe that a girl has the right to choose where and when her father is informed of her periods starting (but that her father has the right to be informed when this exclusively female bodily function starts, against her wishes).

And you both believe that this request = lying to her father for the rest of her born days about her periods.

And you're accusing other posters of having issues???

Your stat of 80 % was taken from the first search result in Google which specifies women AND girls and is qualified by 'at some point in their lives'

I’m not saying it doesn’t reference women and girls, but I’m still waiting in breathless anticipation for you to provide any statistical back up at all for you claim that period pain isn’t an issue affecting girls.

Blimey “Daddy issues”. Not sure where to go with that one. I think I might take the dog out.

Interested that nobody has addressed my point about girls’ boundaries about nudity, or shutting the loo door. Should they be set by grown ups too? Are they about body shame?

*@VivienneHolt

I think your comments have been brilliant.

CassianAndor
zweifler that's all a massive extrapolation. Asking for Dad not to be told when a girl's periods start does not means always keeping it from him.

oooh, so now we're not keeping it from him. Who is arguing here that fathers must be sat down on day one and given the period proclamation?

You and several posters have been very clear that mothers should help daughters keep their periods secret from their fathers. If mothers aren't helping keep periods secret from DHs, they are not lying to DHs about it and they are in fact not really keeping it secret from DH at all, then what is there to argue about?

Blistory

I think it's awesome to defend your extremely pro woman point you have to try to undermine women's experiences of painful periods and it's effect on their lives.

I do think if a girl gets her period and her immediate reaction is it needs to be kept secret and that her dad can't know, then something in the way she's been brought up has led her to have these thoughts. For me it's not a normal reaction.

What's the whole thing with 'secret'? Mixing up 'secret' and 'privacy' is not good. Even though I was one of four children, we just expected and received privacy. It's not about being ashamed or thinking things are dirty little secrets, it's about respect for each other's boundaries.

plan-uk.org/media-centre/plan-international-uks-research-on-period-poverty-and-stigma

Nearly half (48 per cent) of girls aged 1421 in the UK are embarrassed by their periods

One in seven (14 per cent) girls admitted that they did not know what was happening when they started their period and more than a quarter (26 per cent) reporting that they did not know what to do when they started their period

Only one in five (22%) girls feel comfortable discussing their period with their teacher

Almost three quarters (71%) of girls admitted that they have felt embarrassed buying sanitary products

One in ten had been asked not to talk about their periods in front of their mother (12 per cent) or father (11 per cent)

49 per cent of girls have missed an entire day of school because of their period, of which 59 per cent have made up a lie or an alternate excuse