to be a little perturbed to have discovered that my next door neighbour is a Creationist?

[Greensleeves]

DH overheard our next door neighbour having a row with his wife in the back garden yesterday. He was insisting - belligerently - that the Earth is 6000 years old, Stephen Hawking was an idiot and the moon landing was faked. His wife was cackling and saying things like "but it's basic GCSE physics!".

For the avoidance of dripfeed: he's a dour, ill-mannered git who bellows at his kids all weekend and lets his dog shit on our drive.

The problem with the creationist view is that they ask "how can something come from nothing?" or "where did the stuff in the big bang come from?" and when rational people answer "I don't know", they take it as a sign of weakness, and think they've won the argument.

But there's nothing wrong with saying " don't know", given that we don't know! Just because we don't know the answer to something, that's no reason to invent an answer like "god did it" when there is not a scrap of evidence for that.

Science doesn't have all the answers....that's why we are still doing it. If we don't know the answer, the sensible thing is to say so and to do is more science, not just to say "god did it" . That's just giving up and is no more than intellectual laziness.

Well that shut Mrs9c up

Lol, I’ve been out all day living life Interesting point that you say you say the problem with the Creationist view is “how can something come from nothing”, as all I’ve seen in response in this thread is “how can there be a god” or “who made God”. I’m not afraid of a healthy debate or discussing differences of opinion. We will differ in opinion because we are coming from different backgrounds, I take Genesis literal and believe that God created everything, you come from the background that (this is an assumption) God does not exist so we came about by another way. Were any of us there? No. I have never in my almost 4 decades have had any reason to doubt or come across any compelling argument to convince me otherwise and it has nothing to do with intelligence.

Adam could not live forever, as he was told he would “surely die” if he failed the test of temptation, which he did. With sin comes imperfection, and imperfection crept into an originally perfect body. It is the reason the first few generations lived so long compared to post flood. Sorry if this does not make sense, but if anyone is interested Genesis 1-11 is the foundation of Christianity.

The evidence that suggests the moon landings were faked, is actually quite compelling

Only if you're an anti-rational conspiracy theorist with a tenous grip on reality.

i'm a non-bonkers young earth creationist! There is compelling scientific evidence to support this view

No no no no no no no no no no no no.

Sorry if this does not make sense, but if anyone is interested Genesis 1-11 is the foundation of Christianity

Oh my days! No it's not! Christianity is the acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah! The OT is nothing to do with Christianity and is shared, in the main, with Judaism and Islam.

Christ doesn't even appear in Genesis. How can it be about Christianity?

As long as they look after the garden, don't cause unnecessary trouble and are relatively quiet, I wouldn't give a flying fuck off my ndn was a flat earther. Just don't talk to him.
Also are you sure he wasn't mimicking someone they know?

Christ HAS to be in the Old Testament, he was first promised immediately after the fall of man as redemption for sin. Christ is the son of God, who is part of the Trinity who has to be there from the beginning. He doesn't appear the same way as in the NT, but he is nevertheless there. Without Genesis, and the belief that sin spoilt a perfect world and caused the need of salvation, then there is no logic to the NT, it's the very foundation of its existence.

Erm.... there’s no logic to most of it. Are you only just realising this?!

Oh my days! No it's not! Christianity is the acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah! The OT is nothing to do with Christianity and is shared, in the main, with Judaism and Islam.
Christ doesn't even appear in Genesis. How can it be about Christianity?

Well Jesus endorses the OT as the truth several times in the NT. So it's disingenuous for Christians to wash their hands of all the awful stuff in the OT on the basis that it pre dates Jesus.

Lol, I’ve been out all day living life grin Interesting point that you say you say the problem with the Creationist view is “how can something come from nothing”, as all I’ve seen in response in this thread is “how can there be a god” or “who made God”. I’m not afraid of a healthy debate or discussing differences of opinion. We will differ in opinion because we are coming from different backgrounds, I take Genesis literal and believe that God created everything, you come from the background that (this is an assumption) God does not exist so we came about by another way. Were any of us there? No. I have never in my almost 4 decades have had any reason to doubt or come across any compelling argument to convince me otherwise smile and it has nothing to do with intelligence.

Never mind about seeing nothing to convince you otherwise in the last 4 decades. There is absolutely no evidence for what you believe.

We do not know how life began or where the stuff in the big bang came from, if anywhere. You don't know and I don't know. The difference is I know I don't know, where you've chosen to make up an answer with no evidence to suggest your answer is correct.

We do know that stuff can appear from nowhere, as has been detected in quantum physics. Tiny particles, quarks and antiquarks, pop into existence and disappear again. Although we don't know how this happens, just that it does. This may hold the key to the origins of the universe, or it may not.

Interesting point that you say you say the problem with the Creationist view is “how can something come from nothing”, as all I’ve seen in response in this thread is “how can there be a god” or “who made God”

You’re clearly missing the point of why people are asking you this, which suggests it may be about intelligence after all.

Christ HAS to be in the Old Testament, he was first promised immediately after the fall of man as redemption for sin. Christ is the son of God, who is part of the Trinity who has to be there from the beginning. He doesn't appear the same way as in the NT, but he is nevertheless there. Without Genesis, and the belief that sin spoilt a perfect world and caused the need of salvation, then there is no logic to the NT, it's the very foundation of its existence

Your argument doesn't flow both ways. Without the OT the NT makes no sense. I agree. But that doesn't mean that without the NT the OT makes no sense. The former existed before and separately to the NT. My son picked up a child's Qur'an the other day and we read the stories together. They are identical to the OT ones in his Bible.

You are looking at everything from a Christian perspective when it's just one expression of monotheism.

What you are saying is that religions who have the OT but not the NT are wrong.

You're on shaky ground when you start dismissing the faith of every single Muslim and Jew in the world.

Well Jesus endorses the OT as the truth several times in the NT

Yes. Indeed. But that's not relevant to what I said.

So it's disingenuous for Christians to wash their hands of all the awful stuff in the OT on the basis that it pre dates Jesus

I agree. And again, nothing to do with what I said.

My point is that Christians can't claim the OT solely as a Christian text because it's shared by billions of people who don't believe Christ was the Messiah. They won't be saying 'Genesis is the basis of Christianity' will they? They're not Christians!

This is Religion 101 isn't it? The Torah, Qur'an and OT are essentially the same text. Christians have the NT bunged on the end because it's about the teachings of Christ who they accept as the Messiah. They don't get sole dibs on what went before.

Christ HAS to be in the Old Testament, he was first promised immediately after the fall of man as redemption for sin

NO! The Messiah was promised. Only Christians think that was Jesus!

I think I've made my point now. I'll shut up

The concept of Jesus being the 'saviour' who 'saves' us from our 'sins' makes no sense whatever without the concept of sin, so yes, it's rooted in the genesis story.

You have to up a premise (we are all 'sinners') and that we can't 'save' ourselves in order for a 'saviour' to be meaningful. And the idea that this saving can be performed because of Jesus 'dying for us' is meaningless unless there's a back story of animal sacrifice.

@SinkGirl So you conveniently miss the “in a closed system” part, like all Creationists who think they know more about science than actual scientists. Do you genuinely believe all of science is a conspiracy?

I'm not a scientist, nor do I claim to have any scientific knowledge, many scientists are Creationists though, the two are not incompatible. I do not believe all of science is a conspiracy, but some science is assumption of parameters to attain a certain result, and some science is theory, including evolution.

@codemonkey NO! The Messiah was promised. Only Christians think that was Jesus!

Yes, I make the point as a Christian, I cannot speak for another religions, each may speak up for their own.

Mrs9C - I'm afraid your lack of scientific knowledge extends to not understanding what science is or what is meant by a scientific theory.
(I've no idea what you mean by 'some science is assumption of parameters to attain a certain result' )

And not everyone who does science is really a scientist.

“I'm not a scientist, nor do I claim to have any scientific knowledge”

Yet you confidently quote the second law of thermodynamics as part of your evidence for YEC....

Learnt about that law in school , it doesn't make me scientifically knowledgable... I have an A level in a science, and a medically related degree, not that that matters, but wouldn't claim scientific knowledge.

So sick of atheists shitting on everyone.

Well maybe it's their turn after the millennia of religious people shitting on everyone.

We could debate until the end of time and not agree, that's for certain. In answer to the OP, YABU to be perturbed your neighbour is a Creationist, you have other reasons to be perturbed that he is your neighbour, but I'm sure that isn't one of them