To ask ,how to deal with body hair on a soon to be 12 year old?

[justcurious40]

My daughter will be 12 in the summer. She has quite a few hairs under her arms these days. I don't think she has noticed much and is not self-conscious about it, but she goes to dance classes and it is becoming more obvious to anybody who may look.

I am not sure what to do/whether I need to do anything. No one has said anything about it to her so far.

What do you all do about this? Seems so young to start shaving there but will she get teased for leaving it to grow?

Our duty as parents are to guide our children.
So am I wrong in having had that conversation with my daughter when she was about 13/4 that she may want to consider hair removal before some boy or girl picks on her.
What is the issue ffs
Sometimes it's not a bad thing to go under the radar in your most informative years.

Our duty as parents are to guide our children. So am I wrong in having had that conversation with my daughter when she was about 13/4 that she may want to consider hair removal before some boy or girl picks on her. What is the issue ffs

Well, the issue that several posters have mentioned - the one where the virtually compulsory prettification of women starts when they are children.

I WISH someone had spoken to me wisely about it before it all started. I got what so many posters are suggesting - the razor handed to me, the little 'no one wants to be bullied, dear, do they?' speech. And so began decades of the same shit.

I really, really wish someone had pointed to a different path for me - the one I was guided onto wasn't positive at ALL and took years and years before I started questioning the bullshit around women and societal conditioning.

If it's about choice, then provide informed choices. Not just a razor in a 'pretty bag.'

And I would have HATED that approach @neckpain As a teenage girl I did not want to hear my mother’s political views on the subject. I wanted help with removing the hair if I wished to do so.

But at 13/4 my daughter did not have the language or confidence to deal with anything other than simply getting through school and attending lessons.
She is now 17 and starting on her journey as a woman. Yes, she still wants to 'fit in'. But that's her choice and it hasn't come from me (even though by discussing hair removal you may think I have facilitated it) She knows that I am a strong woman but I only found my 'voice' later on in life.

I think it's alarming if a 13/14 year old doesn't have the language to deal with their changing body and articulate their wishes and understand some of the arguments about feminism.

FWIW I am a feminist, a director of service and love being a woman. Don't want bairy pits or legs, love a pedicure and facial, make-up perfume, clothes and I wear pink to work.

Being feminine and enjoying looking nice has nothing to do with equality and feminism. DH and I are absolutely equal partners. Professionally I have the same respect as my male counterparts. Often more.

That's fine TwoSoups. You didn't want to hear your mother's political views: I really wish someone had offered me an alternative and not assumed I would want to shave and not question the zeitgeist.

We're all different. I believe it's helpful to give a real, informed choice to girls, because it IS the start of the 'look acceptable or face the consequences' journey that is a cornerstone of everyday sexism.

I'm very happy for my DD's or DS's to shave as they wish, but they'll make the choice with as much as age-appropriate awareness that I can manage.

I think it's alarming if a 13/14 year old doesn't have the language to deal with their changing body and articulate their wishes and understand some of the arguments about feminism

What rubbish, everyone develops at different rates. It's hard enough being a teenage girl without people saying it's 'alarming' if you don't understand or care about feminist views.

As long as both sides of the argument are presented, girls can make their own informed choices when they are ready.

Being feminine and enjoying looking nice

It’s the definition of “looking nice”, isn’t it. Yours, and the generally accepted view of a woman, looking nice, putting an effort in, being feminine etc, all includes make up, shaving, dresses, pink, manicures, tans, the list is endless.

I like looking nice and being feminine too. I can do that in jeans and a t-shirt with toed up hair and no make up.

That is where equality and feminism comes in to it. Me walking down the street being judged for not looking nice and feminine because i haven’t adopted societal norms.

A man can walk down the street clean and tidy and no one ever says he’s less masculine for not having shaved or wearing a suit.

I think the comparisons with boys shaving aren’t quite right.

Female body hair is shameful, unacceptable. We see hear the fear of negative reactions, bullying etc if a young girl is seen with body hair. Down to arms, legs, armpits, pubic hair, anywhere. It’s not a surprise people feel uncomfortable discussing it, as the narrative is women are smooth and soft. Body hair ruins how you want to present to society.

Facial hair on boys is a sign of growing up, maturity, virility, and something to be proud of.

When did you last take a boy or man aside to have a “quiet chat” about others commenting on bullying him on his moustache?

Boys see men everyday out in public with every sort of facial hair. On red carpets, in films, down the local shops. It’s normal.

Last woman I remember in the public eye with obvious underarm hair was Julia Roberts. And the general reaction them was “omg how disgusting, how dare she”.

Girls only see shaven women in public. Boys only see shaven women. There are no hairy role models for girls.

My 9 year old has very hairy legs and is already hiding them in leggings for things like gymnastics. A friend said she had hairy legs in assembly and it hit a nerve. So sad. But I get it, I shave/wax everything, clip public hair right down etc. So I’ve sympathised, told her it’s her normal etc, and when and if she wants to remove it she can come and ask me. She hasn’t yet but when she does I will help her any way I can.

Re hygiene and odour, I totally agree that our standards are for appearance not hygiene, however..... I have never smelt at all or had BO, even as a pubescent teen, and even if I am sweaty. Come perimenopause that has changed. I have terrible night sweats and wake up musty. If I don’t clip the pubic hair right down, the hairs do catch and retain that sweaty BO onion type smell. It’s gross. It makes me feel so so sad. Even plain soap or shampoo doesn’t get rid of it, it’s like it’s ingrained in the hair. Clip it nice and short and there is no smell at all. So there are hygiene and odour reasons for some people and although I hate my kids to see the non natural version as their normal, I will tell them why when the time comes.

Come perimenopause that has changed. I have terrible night sweats and wake up musty. If I don’t clip the pubic hair right down, the hairs do catch and retain that sweaty BO onion type smell. It’s gross. It makes me feel so so sad. Even plain soap or shampoo doesn’t get rid of it, it’s like it’s ingrained in the hair

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I’ve always been a bush embracer and arguer on these threads against women’s increasing pressure to remove pubic hair, but I’ve now become a short trimmer myself

I think it's really sad that 12 year olds have to think about this? I grow my armpit hair etc no one says a word. But shave my legs because I think it looks nicer in a dress. It should be a woman's own choice but sadly children and teenagers can be cruel

I don't think it's changed since I was a teen 30 years ago, we all shaved legs and pits- not pubic hair ,we were all really proud of our pubes,that's definitely changed!

To be fair, the 'give them a razor in a pretty bag' is cringe.

When I bring it up with DD, it will be light and breezy. And when she then comes to me wanting to do something about it, I'll support her decision, while also explaining the context in which she's making it. Even if it's just so that she can put that info in her back pocket and revisit it later in life.

She has asked why I wear make-up before and I've told her 'to conform to patriarchal standards of beauty' with a laugh. She was 2 or 3 so didn't have a clue what I was on about, but as she's got older we've talked about it a bit more.

Again, I won't be sending her into the front line unaware, and open to teasing. But I absolutely will be talking to her more widely about the other issues at play, and the double standards for women. Again, this is also about sending her onto the front line, aware of the wider realities of life.

As she gets older and bolder, she can make her own decisions and come to her own conclusions.

Lycanthropology - I’m so glad it’s not just me!!!!!

I agree with many of the posters here; I also dislike the prettification of girls so young, and my daughter shouldn't have to decide to change herself to avoid bullying. However, when she was quite a bit younger, her favourite thing was playing makeup, because she wanted to be like mummy (and I don't wear much makeup, to be honest). When she talked about shaving her legs, and that she felt a bit self conscious, I said to her what I always say: anything you do, makeup, clothes, hair removal - you do expressly for YOU, and not for anyone else. And I model that daily. I like my legs smooth, I like playing makeup with my girl and taking silly selfies after, love having.my hair done...and it's all things I do because I see it all as the fun stuff about being female, I don't do it to try to be "pretty", because on the flip side, I don't wear makeup daily, or consistently shave,and my daughter sees that too.

I haven't read the full thread but my dd is only 10 and she has dark armpit hair. She's had it at least a year now and not really mentioned it so I'm keeping quiet till she does.

As far as I'm concerned she can eradicate it however she sees fit once it starts to bother her xx

I find it a shame that women tell their daughters that they have to conform so they don't get bullied. DD1 gets called a geek and a 'try hard' because she is smart. No-one would ever say I should tell her to do less well at school so the bullies don't try and pick on her. She's very sporty as well and the boys don't like that, maybe I should tell her to swim slower or kick a ball less hard so a boy can beat her and then she'll slip under the radar. Oh, and she has short hair, should I encourage her to grow it into a more feminine style? Girls are picked on and teased whatever they do. It makes more sense to teach them the skills to defend themselves (verbally, not physically) rather than rolling over and following the orthodoxy. Otherwise we'd still be the property of our fathers or husband, have no right to an education or the vote. Because 'unfeminine' women have always suffered from a backlash.

I agree, if you don't give your daughter the confidence to say "fuck that shit", then who is going to? If you've prearmed your daughter with the knowledge that it is OK to not remove your body hair if you don't want to, then the "you should be ashamed" target is smaller if someone tries to bully her. Let her choose, but let her know that it's OK to choose not to, and that having to shave is all societal pressure and made up standards for how women should look. It's OK for her to fall into line or not.

I've always said "fuckthatshit" and competed in a man's world. My dd is pretty much the same.

Doesn't stop me being feminine and liking pretty things.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there OhTheRoses. What has your personal liking for being feminine and pretty got to do with letting our daughters know it's ok to not shave if they don't want to and that they have nothing to be ashamed of if they choose not to?

BTW, I've always worked ("competed") in a usually male profession and I don't wear make up or shave my armpits. It's unremarkable and doesn't mean any more than you choosing to look pretty. And that's how it should be.