I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

sounds like the poor mum is at breaking point

This ^ does not give her the right to physically abuse a child. FFS.

Thankfully, being at breaking point, at the end of your tether, stressed or wound up isn't a useable defence legally (usually), otherwise abusive husbands would be using it all the time.

I've had many years of having to move a child and I'm struggling to see how the child's legs came to make contact with the concrete. It would be difficult to move a child as large as a 7 year old in that way.

. I do think occasionally pulling them by the arm - when kids drag - that is different to physically yanking them hard along the street.
The difference isthe resistance of the child.

Physical force does sometimes need to be used to coerce young children to do things they need to do but don't want to.

I think when you are trying to make sure your kids are not knocked down by a car, then you may use force that would otherwise not be okay.

Woody68 - you're quoting me but not...

Agreed - resistance of the child. And totally agreed physical force sometimes necessary.

I do generally try not to pull them, push them, my DC as I realise they're kids who could get hurt by being pushed and pulled. After the millionth time though (and I live a 4 minute walk from the school, lucky me!) of me saying "hurry up" when they and I know I need to catch my train and they are doing the 'dragging feet syndrome' and "muuuuummmmm I don't want to go to school today" (no illness either!) then sometimes I have gently pulled them towards the school gate. Harsh? Maybe. Needed? Maybe not.

Dragging her the length of the playground on her shins would have left her with bloody knee to ankle grazes which I am sure in itself would raise questions, ould you've exaggerating a little do you think?

Woody68 - I wouldn't have dragged her on her shins. Agreed OP should have told the school. My original answer to OP was to tell school not confront the mother here and that can be seen as judgy.

Woody68 I have thought that all along.

Her shoes obviously would have helped protect her shins to a degree but I'd expect there would have been grazing to her shins yes. She was struggling at times, trying to get up but her mum continued to yank her along.

You did the right thing and damn right I would judge. And I'm judging all the 'poor mum's at breaking point' people too.

The mom sounds like she needs some support, hopefully she will get this now you have reported it.

You absolutely did the right thing. This makes me think how the hell is the girl treated at home if she's treated in public like that?

This ^ does not give her the right to physically abuse a child. FFS.

Please point me to the post that says it does.

I had this once when I was taking the children I childmind for to school.
A mum was screaming and shouting at her 5 year old daughter in the street and calling her really awful names right in her face. The little girl was crying her eyes out.
I couldnt do anything at the time as I didnt want the children with me to see it so we ran past as quickly as possible.
I told the class teacher and then also saw the Headteacher who said she would note it down

Regardless of what that woman is going through, regardless of what she is dealing with- nothing gives her the right to be screaming at and dragging along the ground her own bloody child- well done for stepping in, no matter how you worded it you stood up for a vulnerable child. Why are so many people on here thinking that the mums behaviour was justified? The mums screaming and dragging of the child was bullying and abusive behaviour. Zero tolerance on child abuse, not pity the mum shes having a hard time. If she cant control her temper in public then God only knows what goes on behind closed doors. Turning a blind eye and ignoring it is enabling that kind of behaviour. The OP did what she could to help in the situation- whilst looking after her own two children and watching the younger child to make sure he wasnt alone. Well done OP, I wouldn't have stood for it either, poor child cant stand up for herself so somebody has to if theres ever going to be any changes made to the treatment of the child.

"Obviously we weren't there so it's hard to say without seeing the woman, which would make it easier to judge if she's a normal mum who snapped or if she's a certain "type" (i.e rough as fuck so doesn't think twice about screaming at her kids in public) either way reporting it is the right thing to do so the powers that be can decide what intervention, if any, is needed."

@Cyclades1

This is one of the worst things I've ever read on Mumsnet, which is saying something. The levels of ignorance and discrimination are astounding. Shame on you.

It was right to report her and do so again if anything else happens.

Im surprised at your neighbour though. If i saw a child thrown face first into metal I'd be shouting at the parent to stop, or at the least reporting to police or NSPCC too.

The mum is obviously struggling of at the end of her tether, she said so herself that it was daily and her daughter didn't want to go into school. She'd also had a shock with her daughter almost being hit by a car. That doesn't excuse her at all, it does show that whole family needs help so i hope you put it in the report. Also if you say she was dragged that badly in your report then they can tally your statement to injuries. Im surprised she can drag a dead weight child, any dead weight is heavier, and herd a toddler. That suggests some kind of practise which adds to this not being a one time thing.

It's good you stayed with the toddler, he or she could have easily bolted too and almost been hit or been hit by the car.

@heaviestdirtiestsoul

No one has said it was ok to do this. No one has justified it. Some have said they can empathise.

Thanks for all the replies. On balance, I'm happy with how I've dealt with it. I know it wasn't perfect but given the situation, i did the best I could and now I just hope this girl is okay and if her mum is struggling, I hope she gets the help she needs. Many parents struggle but there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. When that struggling displays itself as abusive behaviour towards your children, something has to change. Hopefully me reporting this will have a positive impact on those children.

Knitting for mittens has outright said for the OP to mind her own business, witch is ignoring it- just accept that a child is being treated in an abusive manner and move on. So not just empathy for the mother. I have a six year old who is as tall as an eleven year old, and so strong that he is nicknamed 'the juggernaut ' by the epilepsy nurse- as he goes through you and not round you, has, amongst other things, ADHD, Autism and global developmental delay. He has his own agenda and wont be coerced into doing anything he does not want to do. I have to find ways to manage, I have to find ways to get both my youngest boys to school, park, shops and whatnot. I have been there and done that. But at no point would I have screamed at him or dragged him. He drives me to distraction frequently, but never- not ever is that kind of behaviour ok!

So one person has said the OP should mind her own business (and been challenged for it) and nobody has said it is OK for her to do it.

It's great that you haven't ever manhandled your child.

Unfortunately, some parents don't have the skills or confidence to stand up to professionals who insist that their child is forced into school. Most people don't have the skills to manhandle a child into school safely, especially if they are also caring for a toddler.

Like I said earlier, people seem to be finding it hard to grasp the idea that understanding and explaining the possible reasons for the woman's actions is not the same as condoning them.

Those who disagree with any kind of dragging (or the smug ones who have never had to man handle their perfectly behaved children in any way...), what methods would you have used in the same scenario?

Well done OP. Thank you for seeing a child being abused and doing something about it. The mother may not be coping, doesn’t give her the right to attack, mishandle and terrify her daughter.
As others have said, if a man was doing that to his partner, the condemnation would be unanimous.
Someone has to put the needs of a vulnerable child first.