I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

You did the right thing and I might also be inclined to email the head and the teacher involved too - what a hideous parent she is !

I receive ongoing Safeguarding training because of my work, and the mantra which is drummed into us is this:

Never investigate, always refer.

The OP doesn’t know the background, and doesn’t need to know - she knows what she saw and heard, which sounds awful. Every reason to be concerned. Not her place to decide whether intervention is needed or what form it should take. Absolutely right to report.

The policy these days is that any safeguarding concern, from whatever source, is logged at the Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub with as many details as available. Some incidents are so severe that action is taken straight away. Others are not, so they lie on file. And some weeks or months or years later, another report comes in about the same child. It all adds up, a picture emerges, and action is taken.

OP, you witnessed one piece of a jigsaw. You absolutely did the right thing in telling your DC’s teacher. If you want belt and braces, I would email the school’s Safeguarding lead and tell them you had spoken to the teacher, and add what you subsequently heard from your neighbour. As others have said, an email will ensure there is a paper trail, so no chance of it slipping the teacher’s mind. Plus you now have further information.

Fucking hell. Being at the 'end of your tether' doesn't give you the right to be physical and hurt your kids. I'm sickened reading a lot of these replies. If you hurt your kids I will judge you.

You did the right thing op. I agree you should follow up with ss.

Report to school/ SS if you think necessary, don't confront the mother re how it is upsetting you. Self absorption at its peak op. YABU.

Whether or not the mum is at the end of her tether is irrelevant. The OP saw a child being man-handled in a way that sounds very extreme and upsetting all round. She absolutely did the right thing in flagging it to the school who are better placed than anyone else on this thread to judge whether this was a one-off or a pattern of behaviour that needs addressing.

I’m inclined to think if the mum loses control to that extent in public, how far does she go in private!

Oh and who gives a flying wotsit if the OP didn’t take the time to pick a phrase that meets the approval of the nit pickers on here. She was caught up in the adrenaline of the situation, give her a sodding break!

Mind your own business

This doesn’t sound too bad.

The girl ran away and could have been hurt. The mum ran after her, was angry, scolded her, then dragged her off to school when she said she didn’t want to go?

Sounds like the mum is having difficulty with a difficult/ impetuous child.

I’d have just minded my own business in this instance. Speaking to the school seems over the top.

"I have never dragged him along by his bag. Or his arm."

I've pushed/pulled mine along using his bag when I've had to move him to safety. I would rather do that than risk him lying down in the road and not being able to get him up or punching someone when he is overwhelmed.

Child protection is everyone's responsibility Knitting.

Mind your own business

Yeah. Like those who knew baby p, victoria climbie, and countless other women and children who have been abused.

Maybe social services should mind their own business too and not just bother.

Maybe the police should take this approach and tell abuse witnesses to mind their own business.

Bet you’re one of those who think Boris Johnson’s neighbours were wrong to call the police too.

Thankfully so far I can still, just, carry DS a few feet. But he has, touch wood, stopped being dangerous around roads, which was never a big concern really.

I'm not going to read back to check, but I haven't noticed any posters saying that it is OK to hurt the child or that being at the end of your tether makes child abuse acceptable.

People really seem to struggle to grasp the concept that being aware of the possible reasons behind someone's behaviour and understanding that it could be fuelled by fear is not the same as condoning it.

The OP was quite right to report it to the school. She probably could have found better words to use to the mother had she had more time an brain space to compose it but she was doing her best.

Ds is 14 now so the carrying days are long gone. These days it is pushing him somewhere safe and holding onto him till he calms down whilst trying to dodge the lashing out.

No one is struggling to grasp any concept.

You are completely in the right. I can’t believe people are defending the mother. She is clearly verbally, physically and emotionally abusing that child. Did it occur to anyone defending the ‘poor mother’ that her DD is terrified of her and running away from more abuse? And I suspect the OP said it was upsetting her to deflect attention from the child. God Almighty, if I’d witnessed that I’d have called the police. I may get a roasting for my opinion, but I am fully supportive of OP.

She shouldn’t have done it but it is disingenuous to ignore what might be the reasons that she did.

And as for Lavande well bully for you. You’re obviously a very marvellous person OR you don’t have kids with additional needs.

The 'end of her tether' comments are a load of bull shit and only ever seen to be applied to parents' abusive behaviour to their children. Nobody would be excusing this behaviour if it was a stressed out husband dragging his wife across concrete or a stressed out carer doing the same to an elderly person. Some absolute bollocks been written on this thread.

You seem to be confusing empathy with approval, darkside

.

I would have talked to the two year old and held his hand and walked up to the mum. Then offered her a hand. I dont agree with what she did but iv also been the mum who physically had to restrain her child to stop him running across school carpark then he had a meltdown. I kind gesture might have diffused situation better than accusations

It is totally fine you called the school. Saying anything to the mom in my opinion wasn't necessary though in my opinion. She was clearly stressed out and at the end of her tether already.

Maybe she's a terrible mother, maybe's not.

My ds runs off. He has developmental trauma so huge public meltdowns and taking off are fairly typical. He loves school once he was there but leaving me was and continues to be incredibly hard. If I home schooled him full time (I do part time on a day to day basis) he would never learn to be away from me. Not to mention given the physical violent meltdowns at home he has been prone too especially when younger, having him full time with me would have been a disaster. I needed a break. Yes we have specialists we work with. Teams of people, and teams within the school as well. That stills means he is sometimes at school kicking and screaming or running off.
The mom might be a crappy mom.
Or she might just need some extra support and parenting classes.
Or she might be exhausted and the running off you saw was preceded by 2 hours of violent meltdowns at home and she's done.
Who knows? Does it make it right? No. Does it mean she's awful? Also no.

You did the right thing in calling it in, but for the rest of the posters judging how awful this mom is a little compassion goes a long way.
Last year I didn't wear shorts because my legs were black and blue. I have had clumps of my hair ripped out, been punched in the face. My dh had his lip split open, and the our ds tried to jump out of a moving car recently. The violence has at times been every single day for months. And my ds has taken off on social workers and psychiatrists and every other professional we've worked with as well. It does not mean any of us are abusing him. In fact our social worker now has to do home visits because he took off on her at the hospital downtown.

And to the poster who had depression and would never do this, it's not the same. Struggling with mental health problems is not the same as having children who struggle with mental health problems. It's a whole other ballgame.

No one actually knows what is happening apart from those that need to know, reporting something won’t kill you.

She might have had enough or she might be like it all the time. You will never know, you done your bit. There is absolutely no excuse for treating a child in that way.

Sockwomble - this DM I saw dragging (sort of gently) her DD across a zebra crossing next to the school - I think she was doing this as the zebra crossing is a couple of months old (new) and she didn't want her DD to get hit by a car.

In those circumstances yes I would drag them along but would try not to do so usually. I do think occasionally pulling them by the arm - when kids drag - that is different to physically yanking them hard along the street.

OP I’m with you. I would rather accidentally offend someone and be thought of as a nosey interfering bastard than risk a child being harmed when someone could have intervened for their protection.

I’m not the victim of abuse but my mum was a children’s social worker. When you live with someone with daily horror stories, you learn that someone has to stick up for those most vulnerable in society. I’ve called this sort of thing out before and would do it again in a shot. If I stand around as an adult, witnessing abuse and doing nothing, in my view I’m implicit in any ongoing abuse. I’m as bad as the abuser, perhaps worse because I know better and choose not to intervene. Intervening is hard, but it’s vital if child abuse isn’t to go on unchecked.

I work in a school. This report would go to the safeguarding lead who would take it very seriously and doubtless involve outside agencies to investigate and support the family, as appropriate.