To say its pointless trying to become a barrister...

[TruthOnTrial]

....unless you studied at Oxford because you simply wont get a pupillage?

Meant to include, the current takeup rate being around 25%?!!!

I'm a solicitor and have dealt recently with various pupils who weren't Oxbridge. They did all have first class degrees from equivalently elite universities though, as a minimum. Many have PhDs. I'd suggest it has more to do with calibre of degree than Oxbridge per se. That and the good old "who you know".

Yes...i had heard firsts plus PhD!

Why the oxbridge only though?

It isn't Oxbridge only, as I mentioned in my post.

The bar is an intellectually highly demanding career. Therefore the bar for entry to the profession (see what I did there?) is high.

A pupil who recently sat in on some meetings for me was in his late 30s, had had a career in academia in another country, and had advised the government of that country on his area of scientific expertise, before doing the BVC and starting his pupillage. His previous career gave him a lot of useful - but not essential - background knowledge relevant to the area of law he intended to specialise in. If I was interviewing for pupillage and had to choose between him and a candidate who had a bog standard 2:1 from Russell Group university, obviously I would choose him!

It's highly competitive. Many chambers do do a lot to expand the selection pool but the bottom line is that there are far more candidates than there are pupillages and therefore chambers can be very very picky. There are lots of Oxbridge applicants who don't make the grade either.

Someone I know could not get a pupillage. They went to a comprehensive, had a first in a highly intellectual subject from a London university (and got an Oxbridge PhD later in life). This was a long time ago though. I’d be sad if things were still the same.

Lots of chambers anonymise the university on application forms now.

Not just Oxford - Cambridge is also a common source of barristers!

Oxbridge isn't my experience at all. But a lot of applications are needed, and good mini pupillages too. Not sure I have spelt that right! It's quite early...

It also depends a bit on geography I think. How far are you prepared to move?

My mate got a pupillage and he’s only got a first from ICL .

He had to apply for god knows how many places though.

@Hacklock Oxbridge is a portmanteau of Oxford and Cambridge.

Have you considered applying to Chambers in Wales? My experience has been that Oxbridge pupils have definitely been in the minority.

I think you’re probably right. Someone I went to school with (state) with a very ordinary background did mange to become a barrister but he took an immense personal risk. He had to take out an ordinary bank loan for 20/30 grand on top of all his student debt. It took him several years after to find a pupillage, during which time he commuted from home in a rural area about 3 hours each way to London and back daily whilst he worked. I think it’s possible but you have to dedicate your entire life to it.

It’s not “Oxbridge only” but it is very competitive, so most chambers are going to hire from the top three or so universities.

@Walkerbean16 I know! I was just answering the OP's first post which just says Oxford - I was mildly outraged on behalf of my alma mater which is of course superior in every way

unless you studied at Oxford

Curious! Did you actually mean just Oxford or did you mistype Oxford or Cambridge / Oxbridge? If the former - can you explain? If the latter - attention to detail is highly prized at the Bar.

I wouldn’t say that nothing but Oxbridge will get you a pupillage - and a bare Oxbridge degree is hardly going to distinguish you in applications. You need, in addition to an excellent undergraduate university record, prizes, scholarships, fluency in a second or third language, high profile internships, international postgraduate qualifications/work and impressive professional contacts.

Some might say that, unless you are related to someone useful, it helps to be spectacularly good-looking and well presented - I couldn’t possibly comment.

Just think how advanced we might be if clever people did more useful things than law.

Many chambers do do a lot to expand the selection pool but the bottom line is that there are far more candidates than there are pupillages and therefore chambers can be very very picky.

This. I'm an ex-lawyer. It is fiercely competitive and sometimes (unless you are taking up a role in one of the few very well paid practice areas) not financially lucrative or even viable for the first 5-10 years of your career. I don't imagine I'd ever recommend it as a career choice.

Law is one of the most important things we have - as human beings. It’s just that the legal profession is ... not what it should be.

Oxbridge and London Unis have the advantage when it comes to chambers in London
A) obviously being in the location
B) Contacts
C) The Universities are harder to get in to study law , therefore they attract the brighter students , who of course are more sort after when job offers come around

There are of course chambers in other parts of the country

I think basically you need a good plan and money behind you if you are going straight for pupillage. Someone I know did 20 yrs as a solicitor and due to contacts and area of expertise then did her study and now works as a Barrister in that area of expertise - but she basically created her own market by being a leading solicitor in the area of work for 15 yrs or so (5 yrs to build 15 to lead etc)

This might be of use or interest OP.

ukhumanrightsblog.com/2019/06/17/law-pod-uk-widening-access-at-the-bar/

And just to add -if you needed a barrista, if your freedom or family or a huge amount of money were at stake, wouldn't you choose what you believed to be the absolute best and the brightest??

The trouble is, how would you know? So the likelhood is that you would let someone who knew do the choosing for you. And they do it by picking the pupils who have already been through rigorous selection via the most competitive universities and then brutal training.

Sorry - typos!!!! (Blame the phone!) Barrister FFS [shame]

I knew someone that was amazing- 1st from Oxbridge etc and he didn’t make any money as a barrister and he got sick of it and then converted to corporate law. He’s now a partner in a magic circle firm earning gazillions so he was one of the ones who made it. It made me realise how hard it is to really make it as a barrister and to be honest how much parental support in the early days is needed.

Great typo spiderplant!!