To say its pointless trying to become a barrister...

[TruthOnTrial]

....unless you studied at Oxford because you simply wont get a pupillage?

A few more lectures attended, even passively, might have done me some good!

It’s exactly as Chaz says. The word you need to be aware of OP is ‘bottleneck’. Institutions are raking in quite horrifying amounts of money from people who will never get anywhere near chambers. It is a con. And heartbreaking and infuriating to watch.

I think there is a fundamental dishonesty at the heart of legal training in this country. People are paying huge amounts for the vocational courses which don’t actually give you a usable qualification. If you don’t then do pupillage or a training contract you are not a lawyer. Given the lack of pupillages and training contracts many people will spend thousands on the course when there is little or no prospect of ever using it.

Oh absolutely. There is money to be made in people gaining qualifications they have no hope of using!

Best friend is a Barrister. She didn't go to Oxbridge.

Have met many of her colleagues who also haven't been to Oxbridge.

Also getting a pupilage doesn't automatically get you a job. Not all pupils will be kept on (not sure if this is specific to my friends chambers though?)

I know someone who’s a barrister, they went to an ex polytechnic!

I think there is a fundamental dishonesty at the heart of legal training in this country. People are paying huge amounts for the vocational courses which don’t actually give you a usable qualification. If you don’t then do pupillage or a training contract you are not a lawyer. Given the lack of pupillages and training contracts many people will spend thousands on the course when there is little or no prospect of ever using it

I've lost count of the number of people I've had difficult conversations with about this. Schools and universities are really letting down those who start law degrees and think everything else just follows. I had a chat with a friend of a friend very recently who got Cs in her A levels and a 2.2 in her degree and didn't understand why she couldn't get a training contract given that she'd taken a law degree and had a place at law school.

Which is why Oxbridge graduates gain automatic MA status afterwards...I think they my not be the only ones - I graduated from Glasgow and I was also automatically awarded an MA too.

Yes, but I understood that degrees in Scotland take four years, NationalAnthem? So it’s slightly different.

Bit at being accused of being disingenuous.

Genuinely not!
Same exams, same board?

How a 2:1 oxford is better than a 2:1 elsewhere? Saying a 2:1 isnt always a 2:1 in the same qualification?

You know it’s not the same.

It is far harder to achieve a 2:1 at oxbridge than almost all other institutions.

Same exams, same board?

What can this possibly mean? Surely you’re not talking about university exams???

Brother didn't go the Oxbridge route. He is a barrister.

Same exams, same board?
eh?

Yes, but I understood that degrees in Scotland take four years, NationalAnthem? So it’s slightly different. Yes they do take 4 years but they are not equivalent to a proper Masters - they are Batchelor degrees. Dh has a degree from Oxbridge but still couldn't apply to work in certain specialist firms because he doesn't have their required additional degree - either Masters or PhD - the Oxbridge Masters just doesn't cut it! Although it impresses some people clearly!

OP you don't have exam boards at university.The university set the exams.

There was a very interesting discussion about this on Law in Action on R4 recently. Bottleneck is exactly right - far more people wanting pupillages than there are available or needed.

There is a plan for a new system for the bar exam, which would involve doing part of the course online for a much lower outlay, and only then moving to the more expensive in-person training. The goal wasn't just to reduce the costs (which it does, but not by much) but to try to weed out candidates before getting to the really expensive stage, so they aren't wasting thousands training for a career they're never going to have.

Listen again here: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0005t7h

@Truthontrial are you from a different country? Universities in the UK don't all use the same exams set by examining boards! A degree from one university can be much harder to obtain than a degree from another, and that is not "bias" or "prejudice" speaking, it's just an objectively true fact.

Re: lew degree, my understanding

Excerpt from LSE.ac.uk
A qualifying law degree is one that includes seven core legal subjects. The LSE LLB includes those seven core subjects and counts as a qualifying law degree (providing that optional courses in Property and EU law are taken as part of the degree)

Real eye-opener the insights and breadth of information on here!

Radio 4 last week had a programme about a new scheme to widen opportunities for non Oxbridge students. That might interest you about doing the exams at a lower price. It was Law in Action I think it was at 4pm on the Monday or Tuesday.

Yes, vast over-supply to number of pupillages available, alongside other factors (like saying 2:1 as that seems meaningless alongside the comments on here)

A qualifying law degree is one that includes seven core legal subjects

includes is the key word here OP. (Although I can see that this might be confusing.)

If you take a Law degree with the intention of using it to qualify for the next stage of legal training then it must include study and examination of seven core subjects. But each university will set their own course - seminars, lectures, supervisions, whatever - and set their own exams.

This is even more the case with non-vocational courses. History, English, Philosophy, Modern Languages, Chemistry, whatever. Every university in the country creates their own course. And sets their own exams. They’re not interchangeable.

Ha! Lew degree!

It depends who you know. I know one barrister who graduated with a 2:2 from Cardiff and I have a friend, who is extremely well connected, who was offered a pupillage with a 3rd from a poly!!!!

Following the Secret Barrister on twitter, it doesn't even seem as though you are that well paid (taking into account the high entry standards) when you become a barrister - or is that just criminal law?