To say its pointless trying to become a barrister...

[TruthOnTrial]

....unless you studied at Oxford because you simply wont get a pupillage?

I managed to get pupillage as someone with a big standard Russell Group 2.1. It took me a couple of rounds and a lot of applications though.

I think the tutorial system at Oxbridge prepares people very well for a life of advocacy, which explains the prevalence of Oxbridge types at the Bar. There is of course stil some prejudice, but most sets are working pretty hard to remove it from their recruitment processes.

My Aunt is a barrister (actually a QC). Can't remember what uni she went to but it wasn't Oxbridge.

I met a barrister recently. She went to Hull.

She went to Hull and the what All? She went to Hull and then just applied for a pupillage and got one? Did she have contacts or substantial financial backing?

I think you need one of the following:

1. Oxbridge (with at least a 2.1)
2. First from decent uni (top 40)
3. Amazing contacts willing to shamelessly help you through the door

Regardless, you'll have to work really hard as the competition is fierce.

My school friend is a judge, went to our local uni. Not oxbridge.

Just think how advanced we might be if clever people did more useful things than law.
I've never thought of this before, but so true!

I'm a solicitor and know lots of barristers who didn't attend Oxford or Cambridge. Those universities are certainly over represented though!

I would say that you certainly need a good degree (preferably a first) from a good university and relevant work experience. We've got a number of paralegals at our firm who are working here while they apply for pupillage. One just got accepted last week and is leaving to take that up. It is a very competitive market and it is a risk to pay to do the BPTC with no guarantees at the end of it. If you're committed to that career path it's important to appreciate that risk so you can factor it in.

Getting a training contract as a solicitor is fairly competitive, although not as much so. I'm a litigation solicitor and do a lot of advocacy. There's also the option of getting higher rights of audience as a solicitor. It's definitely worth considering all the options for a career in law before making a decision. If you're set on being a barrister I wouldn't let the fact that you didn't go to Oxbridge on it's own stop you though!

Sorry 1Wanda1

The bar is an intellectually highly demanding career. Therefore the bar for entry to the profession (see what I did there?) is high

Yes, i do see what you did there thats very good

My point is bias, not doubting the level of intellect.

To find the reality of how prevalent this is, and uncover why it might be so, as it does seem prevalent and biased.

Namechangeforthiscancershit

My enquiry is across all geographical pupillage

Yes HavelockVetinari i used Oxford specifically for a reason, and i understood that pp was referencing my op when saying 'oxford'.

Its not a slight on Cambridge, and it was 'law degrees' specifically on topic not vetmed.

ZazuMoon

Thats good news! What proportion do you know do this?

Thanks Tinyteatime

What commitment and dedication! Won through in the end, but it sounds like an example of swimming against the tide [of elite]

I went to Oxford. Got a 2:1. Took me quite a long time and many applications to get a pupillage.

I have now left the Bar as in fact getting pupillage, then tenancy, working hard and doing a good job are far from all that is required. Criminal law is incredibly badly paid for the level of training and expertise (and skill!) required, and there's still a massive about of male- centric networking required to get anywhere. Barristers in chambers are pretty much all self employed so there's very little in terms of regulation or fairness.

GeorgeTheBleeder

... accuracy highly prized at the bar ...

Yes, as I replied to pp that I typed what I meant.
Im open to hear all comments though.

OK for the sake of those of us unfamiliar with this career path, could someone explain what the route is to qualify?

I am gathering there is something called "pupillage" but you need at least a first degree to get one of those. Could that be in any subject or does it have to be a relevant degree e.g. Law? Is there perhaps a supply and demand problem - more places on relevant courses leading to this career than there are positions to be had?

blackteasplease
Thank you for those insights and sorry to hear this after such commitment to 'get there'

Just a note for anyone reading this - I was a barrister for over ten years (afraid I did go to Oxbridge though). I was pretty successful in one of the more lucrative areas of the bar, was well respected and made a decent amount of money.

BUT

The amount of money which I made compared to my friends who went into finance, industry etc was not actually that great;

The quality of life that I had to submit to in order to produce that amount of money was abysmal;

It’s very easy when you’re starting out to overlook the lack of benefits involved in being self employed. When you’re in the middle of having children and your health takes a nosedive things look very different.

I loved my colleagues, had some wonderful times, left on the best of terms and I wish with all my heart I’d done something different straight out of university. The bar takes the best of the best, demands a huge amount of them and gives back ... not very much compared to how you could do elsewhere.

Good luck op, but do think it through.

GeorgeTheBleeder

Yes, agreed. All that other stuff too, including, but not exclusive to, phd's also it seems!

Interesting final para. Is this also widely held view and perhaps broadly a reality for many?

Oh, and when I left, the number of other (apparently very successful and happy etc) barristers who said “god I wish I could get out too” was astonishing.

cdtaylornats

Just think how advanced we might be if clever people did more useful things than law

seems they actually must be as such a low proportion get to actualky make it.

Not true op. Certainly not nowadays. Plenty of people have degrees from other places. However it is very hard work at the start and difficult without parental/family support.

I have 3 friends who are barristers ( all of whom are QCs). Two went to Oxbridge. The other went to a red brick university and did a conversion course and was from a working class background.

I went to school with the woman from the age of 11 - she was always super super bright and easily went to Oxford and she is now a senior judge. She deserves it - she has a brilliant mind, is fiercely articulate, principled and worked hard.

Someone I went to school with is a Barrister. We went to a comprehensive and then he studied at a Russell Group uni. He doesn't work at Chambers in London though so that may have something to do with him being a Barrister but not educated at Oxbridge.