Does a messy home negatively affect a child's upbringing?

[MaryPopppins]

A friend of mine has gone away for the week and as an emergency needed me to feed her cats and let them in and out as her mum is also away and normally does it.

I've only been in her living room and kitchen before. They're both very cluttered, no space on sides anywhere. And lots of collections. But I guess I'm used to it and look past it as kids are normally running round playing and we only tend to pop in for an hour or two here and there.

But today saw the bedrooms and bathroom for the first time. And was really quite shocked and saddened.

(It's a bungalow, you have to pass the kids 2 bedrooms and the bathroom to get into the lounge and kitchen, wasn't snooping. Normally the doors are shut.)

The kids bedrooms were covered. I can't quite figure out how they get into and out of bed. And the bath was piled high with dirty washing and towels. Toilet all brown, even the seat, sink full of bath toys. Every windowsill is full of stuff so they wouldn't be able to open/close curtains etc.

If I'd seen photos online I'd assume it was of mentally unwell people or old people who needed help. (I will admit to being a germ phonic person. Quite obsessed.)

But they're smart, and the kids are smart, quite cheeky boisterous children but they're happy enough and doing fine at school.

Am I blinkered and terribly judgemental and that's a fine way to live? Will it effect the kids negatively?

I'm not concerned for their emotional well being. But I suddenly feel really sad for them seeing where they sleep/are supposed to get clean.

I was lucky to grow up in a very tidy home. My mum is very house proud and maybe I just took it for granted?

I feel like offering help would insult them. They're very capable. Maybe they're overwhelmed?

For this who struggle I devised my own little ad break challenge for the evenings.

Everything I watch either in the ad or at the point where there would be an ad (Netflix etc) I do a 3 minute job. It is amazing how much I can get done in each ad break

I suspect all the "busy making memories" type commentary is a backlash against the moral superiority that can be displayed by some meticulously tidy people.

My last school tried a minimalist approach to classrooms and desks. It just doesn't work for me. I need the visual reminder of what's going on until it's dealt with. On a Friday evening at 5pm, I tended to do a clear out for the week. By that point some documents/ items that had accured through the week were clearly ready to go. Earlier in the week and I'd have wasted timd and mental energy dithering over some of the maybe stuff.

For a variety of reasons, including my housekeeping prowess, I suspect I may have dyspraxia (DS diagnosed, strong family history, struggle with organisation, beyond hopeless at sport, poor short term memory, interesting sense of logic...) I find the mental processes of dealing with stuff draining. Unfortunately I find it energising having lots of hobbies... which tends to breed stuff. Dealing with a checklist approach tends to fail at the same points with me when my attention span cuts out, so following a standard logical order tends to result in the same jobs being missed each time. I have to mix it up to get a coverage over time. It might not look logical to other people, but it's better than constantly failing at conventional system. Just to get into gear to apply various systems is draining. If the house is tidy, I relax and then suddenly it's undone again. I have a neat attractive garden because the jobs are more intermittent. Even the lawn lasts at least a week and probably more, so I get a sense of achievement from it. Tidying can make me despondent and angry.

DH is quite self sufficient and doesn't directly contribute much to it.

Wow! just seen that clutter scale map even DD3's bedroom is not worse than a 1 and a half on that scale and I reckon its a damm shit tip by the time it gets to two.

Mind you she does have a weed out onece a week and still complains that oft heard female lament that "

"I've got nothing to wear"

I think you are incredibly judgemental, as are those who have commented about it being disgusting. You have no idea about their life behind closed doors. Speaking from the perspective of a single mum with ADHD who can be a bit messy and was in an abusive relationship with someone with OCD, I guarantee no-one could be harder on that mum than herself. If the doors are usually closed, it's because she wants to keep it hidden. Sometimes when a mess gets too big and you can't figure out where to start, it's easier just to pretend it isn't there. And if she's getting no help from other family members then it gets to the point where you think "why the fuck should I bother". My ex used to offer to help me tidy up when I got overwhelmed doing it all on my own, then post before and after pictures of the "help" he'd given me online. Shaming of any sort is unreasonable.

I have to be honest and say that as a family, we are extremely untidy and we both work long hours so the house is often hovering between a 2 and 3. I hate it. It makes me feel anxious and like crap, but also admit that after work and making dinner I will prioritise sitting down and relaxing over cleaning. I always say we need to do a 15 minute cleaning blast every day and between the 3 of us I think it would be really easy to keep clean. I really need to stsrt doing this!

You have just had a shock,seeing your friends bungalow like it is, but you can't do anything about it,and would probably upset your friend if you said anything. I am sure all the family are aware of all the mess, but just go along with things, and I don't imagine that the children care that much if they are only young, they sound pretty normal to me.

I'm sorry that it has obviously touched a nerve for you Garofbalaxy, but not everyone who is untidy has your issues. Many people are just lazy or don't care. I don't think it is fair to attribute every untidy house to mental heath issues as it give people with these issue an unfairly bad image.

But @tapasfortwo it’s fine to not care or be lazy if you don’t mind it? I think the use of the word ‘lazy’ is just as offensive as people who suggest tidy people don’t spend enough time with their kids.

Life is short, it’s fine to be lazy as long as you maintain a basic standard of hygenie. And a basic standard of hygiene can be maintained without cleaning/tidying everyday.

Equally valid is -

Life is short, if your house feels awful if not clean and tidy then prioritise this for your own happiness.

I'd be mortified if my 'friend' came on MN to tell strangers about my messy house.

God this thread has made me want to tidy!

Firstly - I really hate the way men are not held to the same standards, the woman is always blamed.

I aim for a 1, probably manage a 2 and if things get bad go to a 3 in the living areas. Our spare room is most definitely a 4 with old clothes the kids have grown out of needing sorting and presents for kids parties etc and our paperwork.

I really struggle with organisation and have ADHD like tendencies. My husband does not help and in fact creates some of the problems but definitely thinks I'm the messy one.

I have experience of extreme untidyness & for me it certainly exacerbated depression & anxiety. I was helped by a clinical psychologist who explained it so well. Each piece of clutter is ‘owned’ by those who live with it. So subconsciously it takes up mental space & responsibility. This leaves no room for new, free thinking or development & makes the creative process very difficult.

It also suggests subliminally that no task gets completed, finished and cleared to make way for the positive response that comes from a fresh start, new day etc. The old adage that clarity of mind comes from clarity of body (& inhabited space). This change in my environment, definitely helped to clear my depression.

We were quite a bit like this when kids were little and at home.
Now we have a lovely minimalistic home that we're rattling about in.
Are you sure the clothes were dirty and not just thrown in because the kids got them all out to pack.
mine have done this before and we just had to leave the mess or we'd have been late.

Redspider that would be why the site is anonymous then...

I do think the jump from 1-2 is quite drastic. The kitchen picture is weird with stuff on the floor but absolutely nothing on the kitchen table or surfaces. It wouldn't look as bad with the sides cluttered with evening meal prep but nothing on the floor which is far more likely.

my house currently is a bit 50/50. i have (diagnosed) OCD, and spend a lot of time cleaning the kitchen, living room and bathrooms - apart from ‘my’ bathroom which i am a bit slack with, for no good reason that i can figure out.

i hoover around 5 times a day. my hands are raw from cleaning things and over washing them. but, the dining room is a tip, and i cannot for the life of me manage the putting-clothes-away bit of the laundry cycle, so it’s a bit hit and miss in the utility or my bedroom.

as a child, i was ‘taught’ to do housework/cook from a fairly young age, and would be rewarded/punished according to a set of standards that depended entirely on the severity of my mother’s hangover. i wasn’t, however, taught how to do up my shoes, wipe myself properly after using the loo, or brush my hair. i didn’t know until my early teens that you were supposed to actually wash your feet. we were only allowed 3 baths a week (despite being a high-income household) and were not permitted to use the shower. i was never taught how to wash myself between those days. i left home shortly after turning 17, and really struggled with self-care for quite a long time.

my house now has lots of photos, random objects on windowsills (like my haunted vintage Monkey with Cymbals) and books stacked on shelves that probably need a dust. people come round, the kids stay over randomly - it’s relaxed and mostly i love it. we have 4 cats, so little fluffy tumbleweeds are inevitable.

but, all that said, i’m not doing well at the moment, mental-health wise, and i can feel the anxiety of not Doing Things creeping in. i’m also blessed with arthritis, and i know i should rest more, but it makes me panicky. the idea of someone popping in, and the kitchen not being a gleaming showroom fills me with dread.

i don’t know, is my long-winded non-answer. i do think children need love, stability, support and a sense of belonging, of being safe. i didn’t have any of those things, but our house was big and we holidayed twice a year so nobody noticed.

i also think that parents have a responsibility to their children aside from those basic requirements, and that includes providing a warm, clean home and teaching self-care. it’s so complicated - with children it HAS to start with loving them. but also, clean your loo.

I was helped by a clinical psychologist who explained it so well. Each piece of clutter is ‘owned’ by those who live with it. So subconsciously it takes up mental space & responsibility. This leaves no room for new, free thinking or development & makes the creative process very difficult

^ a great way to put it, Bloom. As I've got older I like more and better organisation and hate to see a mess. This is difficult living in a small flat. My heart sinks if I come home from holiday and everything is a mess. But a little bit of decor can be homely and comforting. A really clinical home can be just that, clinical.

I have no more comments on the original post - I'm sure almost everything has been said.

What is the difference between "2" and "3" in the living room?

That sounds like it’s well surpassed ‘untidy’ IMO.

I’m very untidy, you may well find stuff hanging about not put away, but there isn’t piles of crap on the beds and the toilet is always clean.

It might not bother them now but it will when they’re teens and feel embarrassed to bring friends home.

A tidy house is a sign of a wasted life. Or at least that’s what I tell myself

I've seen a couple of houses a bit like this. I think the dirtiness is much worse than the clutter.

I was really surprised at the state of the house of one particular colleague. Such a sociable, kind 'people person'. Tonnes of friends. But to look at her house you'd never know. A layer of sticky yellow on everything - like no-one had redecorated or changed anything for twenty years or more.

I'm not so tidy myself - definitely clean though. But I once had a similar issue. A friend's house was so filthy I feared for her six-year-old. It seemed no cleaning was ever done (she worked full time). Then one day at her house I saw the cat (they had several) sitting having a wash on the kitchen worktop, which was covered in dust & cat hair. I like cats, but not on the worktop. I already knew there was cat shit on the carpet, but letting them walk it onto a surface where food was prepared?? I tried to make her think about it by saying that the cats could wander across the oven hob and get badly burned.
To cut a long story short I thought about ringing social services, but... several years on she remains a good friend & her son's still alive (and apparently well!) - Sometimes it's hard to get your head round the fact that other people have different ideas to your own. I don't think I would ever have eaten a meal there, though.

Yes I thought I was really untidy but my home looks nothing like those 2 pictures!

A tidy house is a sign of a wasted life

No it's not. If kept on top of it takes very little time each day and makes for a much nicer place to relax in and for people to visit.

Recently attended a safeguarding training as started working in a school. One example we were told about was a child who came from a filthy, chaotic home. There was animal poo everywhere, indoors and out, filth, non functional kitchen, non functional bathroom. However, in the end there was no intervention because the social workers judged that the relationship between parent and child was strong and loving and the child was looked after and actually the state of the house doesn’t matter that much if the child is cared for / about.

@Mumof2kids

Those pictures brought tears to my eyes. When I heard of this scale I was scared as I thought I was a bit of a slob but even my garage/store room is a 2. My bedroom/kitchen/living rooms are closer to a 1most of the time.

When DC were little I was depressed and my house was probably a 4/5, as was my house growing up. I felt deep shame about it as if me and my family were inferior to live in such squalor. I can’t imagine how hard it must be living in the 8/9/10s.

But equally, it is hard for kids to grow up in very, very clean tidy houses. The mum of my BF at school was incredibly clean and tidy and I can remember her fear when she accidentally spilt some squash when her mum was out. Not even on a carpet, but on the stone floor of the pantry. She was shaking and trembling as she cleaned and scrubbed and then dried it off with toilet roll that she flushed to destroy the evidence.

Said friend grew up to be extra neat and tidy as well. I am now friends with her one of her grown up children who is trying hard to strike a happy medium with her own DC.

If every surface is covered in piles of extraneous clutter, then they're not cleaned properly.

It's not even that clutter will affect the kids directly, it's how affects raising your kids. How can kids raised in environmental chaos appreciate the value of doing laundry in a timely way, basic hygiene in terms of bedding, pest control that is part and parcel of dusting and vacuuming, or just being able to lay one's head on a clean pillow that isn't full of mites and their excrement?

How can a familiy sit down to a communal meal, proven to be beneficial to children and overall family dynamics, if the table is covered in rubbish? How can kids organise their thoughts and homework activity when their surroundings are the essence of disorganisation?

Studies show a strong correlation between messy living conditions and problem behaviours. It's more predictive of behavioural problems than poor parenting, as 2006 article published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry and Allied Disciplines outlines.

My house is tidy and clean, I expect the kids to keep their rooms tidy and clean. These are life skills. I expect them to keep their desks organized, this teaches them discipline and organization and every single kid I know who lives in chaos has chaotic attitudes to their school work. People I know who say things like a messy home is a happy home are generally themselves disorganized, habitually late, and often find themselves in a panic trying to find or do things at the very last minute. That's just my personal experience and not universal, I know. But it's not hard to see that organization requires discipline and that while nobody enjoys the chores that lead to a tidy and clean environment, that it's a much more beneficial and healthy situation for kids than a cluttered and haphazard approach to living that leaves them embarrassed and ill prepared for adult life.