Does a messy home negatively affect a child's upbringing?

[MaryPopppins]

A friend of mine has gone away for the week and as an emergency needed me to feed her cats and let them in and out as her mum is also away and normally does it.

I've only been in her living room and kitchen before. They're both very cluttered, no space on sides anywhere. And lots of collections. But I guess I'm used to it and look past it as kids are normally running round playing and we only tend to pop in for an hour or two here and there.

But today saw the bedrooms and bathroom for the first time. And was really quite shocked and saddened.

(It's a bungalow, you have to pass the kids 2 bedrooms and the bathroom to get into the lounge and kitchen, wasn't snooping. Normally the doors are shut.)

The kids bedrooms were covered. I can't quite figure out how they get into and out of bed. And the bath was piled high with dirty washing and towels. Toilet all brown, even the seat, sink full of bath toys. Every windowsill is full of stuff so they wouldn't be able to open/close curtains etc.

If I'd seen photos online I'd assume it was of mentally unwell people or old people who needed help. (I will admit to being a germ phonic person. Quite obsessed.)

But they're smart, and the kids are smart, quite cheeky boisterous children but they're happy enough and doing fine at school.

Am I blinkered and terribly judgemental and that's a fine way to live? Will it effect the kids negatively?

I'm not concerned for their emotional well being. But I suddenly feel really sad for them seeing where they sleep/are supposed to get clean.

I was lucky to grow up in a very tidy home. My mum is very house proud and maybe I just took it for granted?

I feel like offering help would insult them. They're very capable. Maybe they're overwhelmed?

I would rather people thought I was dull than choose to live a messy life. I’m not dull. I went out last night with work friends and I didn’t need to do any housework inside today except put clean laundry away, cook the dinner and DD2 washed up. I had a lie in I sorted the car out inside and went to a car wash. This probably took me 1 hour 30 mins over a whole day and as both DC went out earlier I sat and played with the dog in the garden then watched some of my box set. DD1 left school on Friday so she is clearing out all her old school stuff to make a fresh start and make space (of her own accord) and DD2 is watering the plants outside she has been growing. It’s a nice calm family place to be, if that’s dull then what exactly are other people doing on a Sunday? Sky diving?

People seem to know how their DC feel about it before they have grown up and looked back, whereas loads of grown up children from messy homes have made it clear on this thread it’s difficult and chaotic even if it’s not actually neglectful. I know and understand that many people struggle with organising and I am sympathetic about that - it must be really hard, but to be arrogant and rude about people who are tidy is weird

Given the choice of a filthy house and a tidy house I know which one I'd prefer a cuppa in.

Cleanliness is next to Godliness 😉

My house is either a show home or a shit tip - there is no in between.

Mine gets incredibly messy if I’m going away/to an event as I always leave the packing til the last minute and never have time to clean before I go - this could be why your friend’s house looks particularly bad right now? The bedrooms might not always be so messy?

I clean for hours and hours when people are coming to stay - everyone thinks I live in a fab house - they would be horrified if the saw it a few days later. I love a tidy house but I can’t abide cleaning every bloody day so it’s all or nothing!

Like several PP, I struggle with organisation. I have dyspraxia and ADHD tendencies (apparently I don't have actual ADHD as not present from birth but similar symptoms due to emotional trauma and abuse). I also struggle with money, a part-renovated house and several domestic disasters (mice eating central heating pipes and wiring, burst pipes etc). I know myself that a tidy house is better for my mental health but struggle to get the organisation in place.

My father was incredibly houseproud on the surface. He would scrub the kitchen floor every day and the sitting room bin was for decoration only. My mother once was cleaning the sitting room when someone rang the door bell; by the time she had answered the door and got back, my father had put away her duster and polish as "it was untidy". However, he was somewhat of a hidden hoarder. His medication was tidy on the kitchen surface but over half was out of date or superceded. The bathroom cabinet had stuff 40 years old. His immaculately stored papers dated back to the 1960s; I left those for the lawyer to deal with. The kitchen surfaces were wiped down several times a day but just around things - moving the food processor or bread bin etc exposed walls that hadn't been touched. He was incredibly judging of everyone else's tidiness or surface cleaning though.

I grew up in a house that’s probably a 4 or 5 maybe more of those pictures.
Yes it affects you, I couldn’t wait to get out. Nowhere to do homework, everything stank, couldn’t invite people in. It’s awful, friends asking for the loo was mortifying.

As an adult I didn’t / dont know how to clean, how often to do stuff and I have real trouble relaxing when people come round as I don’t know how to be. Which means my kids now don’t have friends round.... so the cycle continues.
My house is probably a 1 in those pictures which has mortified me as I thought it was ok. But the house is too small so cereal etc has to be out

We live in a one bedroom flat. Two adults, a kid and some pets. We have a lot of stuff and I'm probably not good enough at cleaning by MN standards (definitely not by my mum's standard),it is what it is. Somehow we still manage to keep DD clean,her clothes are clean, she's very academic,we eat at a table,she has a very active social life,kids beg to come over and we even manage sleepovers.

Oh op, please don’t do anything to your friends house. I did my parents, my grand parents did my parents. Every time we did even the tiniest thing it kicked off. My mum really took offence at it. Please just pretend you’ve never seen it.

My rooms are consistently like the neatest ones in the photos. Things are seldom out of place. That's not a boast; it's only because mess and clutter send me a bit doo-lally!
And it's usually clean too, but I'd live with a bit of dirt before mess.

The judgement from both sides on this thread is pretty horrible. Especially as the vast majority seem to be between 1-2.

Can we just stop calling each other names. None of us are lazy, boring, obsessive, incapable. We're all just on a huge spectrum of neurology and experience and deserve kindness, especially to ourselves. It seems that our relationships with our homes are particularly deep seated in self worth and family and childhood.

Please be kind. You don't know why someone struggles. Don't assume.

Yes exactly jezebel. What really bothers me though is that they blame one of the kids constantly; as though a 7 year old is to blame for all the chaos. That is abuse in my view. She is like the scapegoat.
There is a balance to be had. I don’t care about cereal boxes on a fridge but I do care when kids have bad stomaches because the kitchen is filthy and food is left out in warm weather. Some people on here are trying to justify what is not justifiable.
As others have said all children should be allowed to live in a safe environment. Huge piles of rubbish everywhere is a hazard.

According to the clutter image ratings, I'm a lot less messy than I realised!

Im struggling to see why the cereal boxes are an issue.

@SaveKevin I don't really understand why you're mortified of the 1, that's the perfectly tidy, nothing wrong photo?

@SaveKevin I don't really understand why you're mortified of the 1, that's the perfectly tidy, nothing wrong photo?

This. Loads and loads of us have said that we are somewhere between a 1 and a 2. The majority of people whose houses are less than a 1 (both on this thread and that I know in real life) grew up in houses that are 5+ and admit that they are reacting to it.

My husband grew up in a house like that and it’s definitely affected him. Now he’s super tidy and hates clutter. He was so embarrassed about it and never invited friends to the house. My best friend at college took me to her dad and stepmums once and it was absolutely disgusting. Stuff everywhere, food rotting on plates. Her little sister went to bed one night when we babysat and we couldn’t find her for an hour. Eventually spotted her curled up In the wardrobe under piles of clothes. Very well off family, the children went to private schools etc.

I'm fairly certain I'm under a 1 score for all those images but this isn't a boast.
I have had military training, I live with a DH who more than pulls his weight and probably most important of all we don't have much "stuff" this makes it easier to tidy and clean.

Our house isn't that big, so we have to be organised to stay tidy and clean.

As well as not much stuff we have systems and routines that help us stay tidy. I might have a hidden pile of paperwork but it gets dealt with regularly.

The desks in the DC's bedrooms are a mess. I won't tidy them (as I think they have to learn for themselves) but DH will tidy them. He gets to the stage where he can't bare it anymore. I can ignore that mess for weeks!

I also make choices in things we buy for the house/improvements partly on how easy they are to clean! So I have shower board in the bathroom instead of tiles, so no grout to clean!

We have tidy SOPs (standard operating procedures) no one goes upstairs or downstairs empty handed. Don't put something down, put it away.

Our attic might be the messiest place in the house, but we know where everything is and we have a system. Our shed is tidy too!

Clean and tidy is a habit, it's having systems and routines, it's having storage and space.

gumbyprickle Sun 16-Jun-19 11:29:02
A clean, tidy house doesn't mean kids can't play or have fun.

Couldn't agree more. I'm a single parent working full time who manages to not live in a hovel, which is what the OP has described by anyones standards surely?

And the image the OP describes absolutely would come under the umbrella of neglect if a children's services referral was made. It's neglect.

One of the first posters on this thread jumped out to me - her son was so ashamed of the state of the house his GF had very rarely visited but when she did he would clean up - I would be mortified if my child was embarrassed of their home due to laziness by parents - and it is laziness - what I find most fascinating is IME most of the families with chaotic homes have a SAHP - Go figure

And just to add I'm a -1 on that link- who leaves cereal boxes on show? I would probably been rated a 2 IF it was mayhem with child's toys on floor - I'm not lazy though and take pride in my home and don't wan't my child to be ashamed - there IS a happy medium - what the OP has described is neglect and it's all our duty to report.

Why do people persist in judging others by their own standard?

For reasons of your neurology, life experiences and mental health you personally may not find consistently following systems difficult, you may even be good at it.

Why do you find it difficult to understand that for someone else who is different to you may not find it remotely easy?

For me the idea that folk would rather spend their energy making art/playing with kids/etc than tidying says that they find tidying takes a huge amount of mental energy.

It certainly does for me. In order for me to live with a house that looks like a 1 it would take all my mental energy, and then energy for work and family would deplete.

That may not be true for others who have a different neurological make up and state of mental health than me. They may find it easier or even necessary to stick to systems. Whereas I find systems completely incomprehensible and impossible to maintain.

We’re all different! Why is that difficult to understand?

Stop with the name calling!

You’ll probably find that the majority of people you are calling lazy are dyspraxic, have ADHD, are greiving, are depressed etc etc etc.

And they probably are not lazy atall. It probably takes them as much or more energy to maintain their normal as it does for you to maintain yours.

Why be so unkind?

Fantastic post gingerginger2.

It’s unkind to be concerned that kids are suffering because they have to live in an awful, possibly dangerous, environment? Ok then.

I’ve cleaned houses for some very well to do professional people where money isn’t an issue

I’ve been shocked at how dirty/cluttered the children’s bedrooms/bathrooms are. Private or grammar schools, very bright parents and children but down right dirty

I don’t know, I don’t have much money but I wouldn’t have my children go to sleep in dirty , cluttered bedrooms. But then I wouldn’t sleep well in a room like that myself

There's little value in being kind to a parent if it perpetuates the neglect of the childs wellbeing. Kindness to a parent at the expense of a child is pretty hollow. If someone isn't coping it's help they need not appeasement.

Not that this is the case in most expressed situations here, but in the OP it sounds like the children live in squalid conditions, and that most definitely amounts to neglect.

if you look back through the thread at posts from those that have opened up about being in a similar situation to the OP’s friend, is your first instinct really to be unkind, call them lazy and judge them?

I suspect that the vast majority of people whose houses go above a 4 have had lives full of unkindness and judgement. And would probably be the first people to call themselves lazy. That is if they haven’t developed cast iron denial and self preservation strategies.

Yes I agree that concern for the children is these sort of homes is natural. But I really don’t think unkindness and name calling is the answer.