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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Jo Brand should be allowed to joke about anything and everything?

575 replies

noleftturn · 13/06/2019 18:04

I don't want to live in a world where we are all censored

OP posts:
Zipee · 16/06/2019 21:02

If we are all for freedom of speech where do we stand on poppy burning?

This is where I'm saying the hypocrisy lies. Its ok to talk about pillar boxes and such but not ok when others do things you find offensive.

RiversDisguise · 16/06/2019 21:05

Poppy burners are twats but of course it's a legitimate form of protest.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/06/2019 21:05

Zipee
If you want absolute freedom of speech you have to let everyone have it.

Nuance

Which are you arguing for? or against?

You can't argue for an absolute then argue nuance.

Zipee · 16/06/2019 21:07

Im arguing that if you claim freedom of speech for one, you have to have it for all.

That's fine by me! But it has to be universal.

Zipee · 16/06/2019 21:09

However, if you do want limits there has to be nuance.

RiversDisguise · 16/06/2019 21:09

No shit.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/06/2019 21:10

Zipee
Im arguing that if you claim freedom of speech for one, you have to have it for all.

I think that you have been arguing against people that are making the same point.

RiversDisguise · 16/06/2019 21:12

There need to be few and clearly defined limits and these need to be applied in the same way to all, you mean?

Zipee · 16/06/2019 21:16

Agreed.

Justanotherlurker · 16/06/2019 21:16

I actually backed you up.

The problem is that some people seem to want it for certain individuals and not for others.

The problem is, it isn't the right who want it for certain individuals, thats the hypocrisy, especially with comments like this.

Two are established comedians doing it in public for comedic effect. One was done in private but while at work, the other claimwd as a joke by an unknown at the time blogger.

The unknown blogger wasn't unknown and most people jumped on his conviction without watching the video in which he clearly explains at the start it is a joke.

You are backtracking and adding caveats, I suppose you support the trans activists silencing people online and taking them to court as they are all unknown?

Your appeal to authority (or fame in this case) is a huge slippery slope.

Nuance.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/06/2019 21:19

Two are established comedians doing it in public for comedic effect.

Just for nuance

One was sent to the wilderness (for a while) for their jokes, the other seems to be being embraced.

Zipee · 16/06/2019 21:21

What a massive strawman you've made there about the trans stuff.

Actually I've often found its the right wing media which trumpet freedom of speech when it suits them and claim thst others should be silenced when they want to. asee the reaction to poppy burners etc.

The unknown blogger was relatively unknown, no where near what he was after. Although I have agreed repeatedly that he shouldn't be fined, it may be easier to get away with "it was a joke" when you are estsblished.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/06/2019 21:24

Zipee

Yet its the left wing that no platform and are/have shutdown discussions on many topics.

Both sides have their methods of shutting down discussions, to not see this is foolish.

jasjas1973 · 16/06/2019 21:59

Yet its the left wing that no platform and are/have shutdown discussions on many topics

Such as?

The so called left wing in the UK is pretty much middle of the road politics/centre left in europe.

The printed media in this country is predominantly far right and racist, it this that needs addressing, the influence they wield in uk politics is a disgrace.

derxa · 16/06/2019 22:03

If the left wing want to support acid throwing then I want no part of it.

Gth1234 · 16/06/2019 22:08

No one has silenced these people,
Tommy Robinson, and Nick Griffin before him. Completely censored.

I would like to hear less off Owen Jones - mind you, since he spouted off on Andrew Neil's This Week, he is a lot less highlighted on the BBC. Funny that.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/06/2019 22:09

jasjas1973

Such as?

No platforming in universities has always been done by left wing groups.
Any talk on immigration.

Would be the first two that spring to mind.

Justanotherlurker · 16/06/2019 22:10

What a massive strawman you've made there about the trans stuff.

No I haven't, I am following your logical train of thought that only "accredited comedians" can make jokes so can possibly offend, ther wont be many comedians coming through the ranks if we follow your logic.

Actually I've often found its the right wing media which trumpet freedom of speech when it suits them and claim thst others should be silenced when they want to. asee the reaction to poppy burners etc.

And this points out that you are still treating it as a team sport, this is about Jo Brand and how she initially shouldn't have to apologise and anyone complaining is a right wing snowflake, if you wanted her to be held to the same standards then whatabout Farage, Boris.

You can't even be consistent in your belief because your IDPOL dogma is tying you up in knots.

The unknown blogger was relatively unknown, no where near what he was after. Although I have agreed repeatedly that he shouldn't be fined, it may be easier to get away with "it was a joke" when you are estsblished.

You cannot see the slippery slope in your argument, to become estabalished you need to get your name out there, initially it became viral because people watched the video and understood the joke and nuance of getting an out and out left wing socialist with a hammer and sickle tattoo to preform on command, those that jumped on the outrage wagon are lacking the nuance.

Pretending that you are aware of nuance with how you have you framed the situation as politics is a team sport style analysis shows the real strawman in this thread. (and others to be fair)

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/06/2019 22:10

jasjas1973

and at the moment its the left wing that are throwing milkshakes over the right wing.

Gth1234 · 16/06/2019 22:11

Poppy burners are twats but of course it's a legitimate form of protest.

in what possible way is it legitimate?

Zipee · 16/06/2019 22:11

How has Tommy Robinson been censored?

He has had Oxford union presentations and been on Newsnight. Nick Griffin was on QT.

Justanotherlurker · 16/06/2019 22:16

The so called left wing in the UK is pretty much middle of the road politics/centre left in europe.

Why do this false equivalence, despite what you think of the tories they are not as far right as what is rising in europe?

Self refelection is always met with faux innocence.

Its the same as asking why the Tories are far right fascists, don't play innocent in the language that is used.

Zipee · 16/06/2019 22:21

Utter strawman justsnotherlurker.

Accredited commedians? The point was that people performing to an audience have more licence than others in many respects. I actually only asked if the context was different initially. Also if the "it was only a joke" excuse could therefore be used by anyone.

Your strawmen are all over here, claiming i have views which i do not.

I don't think Jo Brand should apologise, and nor have I said anyone else should. I've asked if there are perceived differences between performers and ordinary people when it comes to enforcement of the law.

The point about Farage and Boris is entirely legitimate, this week Boris defended his pillar box remark with a point about free speech. Why is it upheld for him but Jo Brand derided as she was here ? Oh and there have been oh so many remarks.here about "the left" that it certainly appears to.be a team sport..

Justanotherlurker · 16/06/2019 22:24

How has Tommy Robinson been censored?

Non sequitur, you are very ignorant in thinking there hasn't been calls to no platform him however,

He has had Oxford union presentations and been on Newsnight. Nick Griffin was on QT.

Nick griffen was highlighted to be the fuckwit he was by appearing on QT, Oxford invited TR, there are calls for Farage not to appear on QT currently or that he has had too much air time.

But I suppose that isn't silencing or caveats are involved.

Zipee · 16/06/2019 22:29

Farage has the second most appearances on QT, Ken Clarke, MP since 1971, former Chancellor, Home office minister ( and i think a few more) is the highest.

Do you not think that someone who is an MEP.and leader of a party that has no representation in parliament ( and even his last only ever had two short lived seata) has had too many appearances?

Tommy Robinson gets lots or media time and attention.

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