To think Jo Brand should be allowed to joke about anything and everything?

[noleftturn]

I don't want to live in a world where we are all censored

Cartoons of Mohammed should be fine too.

I seem to remember the left wing being part of the Je Suis Charie movement.

Katie Hopkins was not reported to the police for her comments neither have many others.

Jeez you are really just a total fascist aren’t you?

How about Anne Widdecombe? Bet you’d love to see her silenced.

Jo Brand won’t suffer in any way, if anything her reputation will rise.

You probably disagree vigorously with the ‘definition’ of anti-semitism zippe- am I right? You probably feel it curtails your god-given right to criticise the state of Israel?

I do as well.

I seem to remember the left wing being part of the Je Suis Charie movement.

No they were just confused about which side to take - maybe it was just a racist provocative rag.... like the daily mail!!!!

Corbyn is generally in a pickle over Israel vs Islam. He likes to walk the fence. Rather like brexit.

Don't really get the fascist remark. I ead pointing out that no one repirted her to the police, no one reported Anne Widdicombe either. I didn't say that they should.

Its interesting that you know what Corbyn did and take this an example of the left's reaction to Charlie Hebdo, when he was just a back bench MP at the time.

I think people being critical of Israel need to be very careful not to break the IHRA definition, but its entirely possible.

Unfortunately, no she cant. This is because the world is full of people taking up such ideas. Note one milkshake attacj was stiftly followed by another. It wasnt just Farage that objected. It was sill of her. Similar to a person in security who joked about having a bomb and delayed a plane for hours. Social media has a lot to answer for. Poeple in the media should know these things, she dropped a clanger

I think people being critical of Israel need to be very careful not to break the IHRA definition, but its entirely possible.

Do you resent that someone else has decided for you the parameters of the discussion?

Thing is, she did make me laugh, and it was so clearly a joke, not in any way telling people to actually do this!

Totally different from Katie whatsername or Farage telling people what to do/think

It was a joke. It made people laugh.

I think its possible to be critical of Israel without resorting to antisemitic tropes.

You can break the definitions if you like but you must be prepared for criticism.

As I said freedom of speech is not the freedom to say what you like without critique.

Should we have hate speech laws at all?

You really don’t like to answer questions straightforwardly do you zipee?

I feel pretty certain that you’re a critic of the state of Israel and I feel pretty sure that you must think the state itself is at least partially a racist endeavour, which you are no longer allowed to say and remain in government, you’d have to resign.

I apologise in advance if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick but I have a strong hunch that I’m right.

I’m against hate speech laws across the board. As an aggravated factor to an actual crime, absolutely, those people are demonstrably dangerous.

I agree entirely. All the hate speech laws have done is tie up huge amounts of police time in dealing with trivia.

I answered the question clearly. It isnt a yes or no point is it.

You are creating strawmen with your "what you think" points.

Its entirely possible to be critical of Israel without saying its racist. You can look at the breaking of international law, disobeying UN security council resolutions, and breakinh human rights law for one.

You can also however criticise those supporting the Palestinian cause for many of the same things.

Have you decided to answer my question about why you called individuals on this thread hypocrites yet Zipee? Without having to resort to ‘what Boris said’, or other ‘general’ arguments.

Which individual was that directed at ?

I didn't name anyone in particular, I was rightly highlighting that people who cry free speech for those who are of a particular political persuasion, then also hypocritcally complain about others.

Like for example Nigel Farage.

But the conversation has moved on since then.

Either you believe in free speech or you dont.

But many people seem to confuse free speech (not being jailed by the government for saying something) with suffering no consequences at all.

I agree people confuse free speech with suffering no consequences. I also think that people confuse it as being the right to say what you like without critique.

Its entirely possible to be critical of Israel without saying its racist. You can look at the breaking of international law, disobeying UN security council resolutions, and breakinh human rights law for one.

OK help me out here. When a nation breaks international law to the disadvantage of/breaches the human rights of one particular ethnic group, what's it called? I can't remember the word.....

But many people seem to confuse free speech (not being jailed by the government for saying something) with suffering no consequences at all.

No one has said no consequence, being investigated by police or in some case taken to court for edgy jokes is what the majority of free speech advocates are on about.

The fact that a lot of the defending of Jo Brand from those who treated it along political lines came out with "it was just a joke etc etc" are just as bad as those on the right who did it initially, there are some on both side who think its only the opposite side that needs to face consequences.

It isn't about right or left like some on this thread are desperate to still make it, its about understanding that sometimes some jokes are edgy and does not require the state to step in.

The comedians sticking up for Jo Brand have been consistent in there support with the Nazi Pug guy and others.

The online posters who immediately start shouting, but farage, boris are not so consistent in their belief of consequences.

Thats where everyone could see the initial hypocrisy. Jo should not have had a hate crime reported, nor should she have had to apoligise either, but in the same breath neither should the nazi pug guy or others who have posted edgy jokes. Some on here though would still differentiate and still miss the whole point of the debate.

Is there a difference in context between Count Dankula and Jo Brand? She was on a radio 4 show as an established comedian, he was an unknown?

Unknown to whom? He had hundreds of thousands of YouTube subscribers. Sargon has over a million, I believe. Media is changing dramatically. Being on a Radio 4 panel show isn’t exactly where the action is now taking place.