To think Jo Brand should be allowed to joke about anything and everything?

[noleftturn]

I don't want to live in a world where we are all censored

We cannot go around policing comedians, they're suppose to shock and amaze..

I agree, I think comedy is actually very important - it shouldn't be safe or clean or god forbid inoffensive.

@BenWillbondsPants I never said I was advocating it

Reeks of 1984

No, it really doesn't. Most right-minded individuals understand that there are some things that are just not funny. I don't mean a bit risque, close to the bone stuff that is subjective depending on the individal, some things are just not funny to any normal person.

some things are just not funny to any normal person.

Ah, yes. The 'normal' person rule. Presumably the 'normal' person thinks a lot like you do?

@ noleftturn, if you 'don't want to live in a world where we are all censored' surely that means that you believe any subject is fair game? People should be able to say what they like about whatever subject?

People should be able to say what they like about whatever subject?

No, we should have a list of permitted things and people could add to it via petition to the Central Committee

@AlaskanOilBaron, can you expand please? I may, of course, be wrong but I honestly don't believe any normal person thinks that acid attacks are funny.

I cannot bear NF. Not his politics, not as a person. He is a dangerous loathsome hypocritical nasty menace.

But he has a democratic right to peddle his views and throwing milkshakes or anything else at anyone because you have different views is not acceptable behaviour.

I will support anyone’s right to free speech, except where they are inciting violence.

JB’s comment was vile, and given the context, could easily be seen to be inciting actual violence. I would be deeply upset if someone said that with me as the target.

The thing is, she largely does enjoy free speech. She can make jokes about rape. She can make jokes about child abuse. Frankie Boyle used to cross those “lines” all the time. What Jo Brand is accused of is inciting violence.

I’m a free speech absolutist, in that I believe we all have a perfect right to say what we want to and joke about what we want to. I could compromise on incitement to violence, or libel... but everyone should be free to express their thoughts and ideas, however ugly and bigoted, because it’s only by exposing ideas to the sunlight of criticism and challenge that the bad ideas can lose. If they’re left in the dark, unexpressed and unsaid, they’ll fester unchallenged.

If we’re not free to utter the words we want to use, then we’re not free.

Perhaps it would have been more "amusing" if acid hasn't been used so much recently. I adore Jo Brand - but this is not something to joke about IMO.

@ noleftturn, if you 'don't want to live in a world where we are all censored' surely that means that you believe any subject is fair game? People should be able to say what they like about whatever subject?

I do believe that any subject is fair game, yes. I don't agree with people inciting violence.

But who gets to decide what is inciting violence?

I could compromise on incitement to violence

But isn't this exactly what is being considered by the Police at the moment (re Jo Brands "joke") ?

*I’m a free speech absolutist, in that I believe we all have a perfect right to say what we want to and joke about what we want to. I could compromise on incitement to violence, or libel... but everyone should be free to express their thoughts and ideas, however ugly and bigoted, because it’s only by exposing ideas to the sunlight of criticism and challenge that the bad ideas can lose. If they’re left in the dark, unexpressed and unsaid, they’ll fester unchallenged.

If we’re not free to utter the words we want to use, then we’re not free.*

This is what I want to say but I'm not eloquent enough

But who gets to decide what is inciting violence?

Erm... the police and then the CPS?

Was Jo Brand actively and actually trying to incite violence though? That's the question

But who gets to decide what is inciting violence?

The CPS

I Think she took it too far in my opinion. Acid is no joke I mean look a Katie piper. I love jo brand but I personally don’t find what she said funny.

Take out the butt of the “joke” and ask yourself if it’s appropriate to joke about an acid attack.

There are plenty of weirdos out there who’d do it.

*But who gets to decide what is inciting violence?

Erm... the police and then the CPS?*

The police work in and for the society.

Can you imagine the uproar if a comedian had made the same joke about Dianne Abbott. Dianne gets a lot of abuse online, like Farage. Both are polarising characters, but they are both people. Nobody needs the "joke" of having acid thrown at them. But the BBC would never had broadcast if it was somebody they approved of. It was a pre-recorded show, not even live. Danny Baker was booted out recently (rightly so) for an ill judged and in my view racist comment so why is Jo allowed to incite this type of ugliness without censure?

There are lots of strange people around, and we seem to be living in times where so much anger is to the fore, that it would not take much from a maniac to chuck acid rather than a milkshake. Jo Cox's sister has a tv programme on this evening about anger directed at politicians and in society in general, it is marking the coming three year anniversary of her sister's tragic death. Instead of that being a catalyst for change, it has got worse. I did think better of Jo. (Remember Corbyn promising a gentler style of politics when he got the top job, that went well....)

That's where we disagree then OP, I don't believe that things like child abuse, rape etc are fair game for joking about. I think as soon as we decide that these things can be funny, we start to normalise that kind of behaviour. However, I accept that my own personal experiences may be clouding my view.

If her speech passes the test for incitement, then she'll have to face the consequences. It's for a judge to decide.

The police work in and for the society

You’ve lost me, OP.

I would hope that most of the people listening to Radio 4 are intelligent enough to know it’s just a comedian making a joke, but with the state the country is in and the levels of anger in society it could incite an idiot into doing something terrible.

A few years ago nobody would have made a fuss about what she said but in today’s climate it’s very irresponsible of the BBC to broadcast it