Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

Some people on here get so angry so easily! Dinner parties must be a barrel of laughs with you lot.

I think given the comment about 'emotional upset' the problem is that those of us who don't eat meat and/or animal products are too polite. Watching people chow down on meat is equivalent to watching a crime show where the people cook and eat the corpse after the autopsy scene it's disgusting and makes my stomach turn. But to spare the feelings of meat eaters I don't say anything. But if meat eaters are as insensitive as some of you on this thread then clearly vegetarians who feel as I do, and many of us do, should stop sparing your feelings. Not to mention the general blight on the environment that meat eating represents which in a time of climate crisis is a big fucking deal. Also making a separate meal is not that great, it singles out the vegetarian, my friends never do that. Glad they're not like some of you...Similarly when friend with Coeliac visits, make a suitable meal that everyone has...

A put parmesan on the table to put on top, but explained there was already some in the sauce.

See, not only was A slightly thoughtless, they don't know how to make lasagne either. Parmesan in the bechamel?

The very same thing happened to me.

I didn't expect my vegetarian friend to eat the dish, I was sad she couldn't though and she was disappointed for all the effort I had put in, but couldn't eat it.

She just ate the sides - no drama

It's really not hard to check the ingredients on the packet if you are looking for someone with a dietary requirement. Just treat it as you would an allergy and check the labels. Even if you thought something wouldn't have nuts in you'd still check just in case.

I wonder if some of it is due to all the people who call themselves vegetarian and then eat fish causing confusion about what it actually means to be a vegetarian.

You mean muppets who don't understand the word pescatarian?

A lot of people are veggie for religious reasons, not just because they dislike eating meat.

Wow theres some conclusions lept to there..

I am not vegetarian but don't eat cheese made with rennet because the idea revolts me.

If I offered to cook a vegetarian meal, I would check all the ingredients were obviously vegetarian and said 'suitable for vegetarians' where necessary.

It isn't that hard, that someone has not bothered to check either by asking their guest or reading labels suggests to me they are a poor host!

If you aren't sure what is or is not vegetarian, and you can't be arsed to check labels, then simply ask your guest if your proposed menu is suitable/has any issues such as 'check cheese is vegetarian'.

That is not difficult.

Lots of restaurants make this mistake!! I've seen parmesan on 'veggie' dishes before. Your veggie friend was rude, though.

I didn't know this until recently and when I got married the veggie option was mushroom risotto with a Parmesan crust. I didn't know and they didn't know either

B is being unreasonable. Parmesan is a very common food ingredient and B should has said if they don't eat that ingredient. It's completely different to providing a list. Cheese is very commonly used in vegetarian dishes.

It's pretty ignorant not to know that parmesan is made using rennet, its information that is in the public domain, not some sort of state secret.

If I had made a misstep due to my own ignorance in this way, I would have been full of apology and made a mental note to be more careful in future. Next time, it might have been allergy-related and caused a serious issue.

A lot of people don't like to have their ignorance brought to light though, so I'm not surprised A is on the defensive.

Well then you take the cake as far as ungracious hosts are concerned, draw the line at making your guests physically ill but any other kind of trauma is just fine!
Sorry but causing physical illness or possibly even killing someone is NOT the same as hurting someone’s feelings!

I would say that most vegetarians are aware of the horrors of the dairy industry, yes. I don't think that should preclude them from being vegetarian.
I wouldn't attempt to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't eat but it makes the addition of rennet irrelevant imo.

Other cheeses, like your standard cheddar, do not contain rennet so are suitable for vegetarians, however are not suitable for vegans as they contain milk which is from an animal, but the animal has not had to have been killed to get it.
The animal that gave the milk does not have to be killed but other animals are killed as part of the production process.

I feel sorry for A. This was a mistake. She went to some effort to prepare a dish she thought the vegetarian guest would enjoy. It must have been frustrating and embarrassing to be told of her mistake.

I feel sorry for B, finding themselves in this position as it's uncomfortable for them too.

However if someone is more in the wrong than the other, in my eyes it's B. B will hopefully provide future hosts with a list including the more unexpected ingredients that are not vegetarian friendly.

I have multiple allergies. I am very lucky to have friends who are willing to navigate this and invite me to dinner parties. I have a Word document with a comprehensive list of my allergies. Possibly an example that is relevant is that I can't eat pulses. Should I expect hosts to Google every ingredient they cook with to check whether it's a pulse (and there are some surprises where this is concerned) or is it just easier for me to take responsibility for my dietary requirements and try to make the hosts' life easier and give them a list of what to avoid? Clearly the latter is preferable.

RedToothBrush yes, fishy fuckers.

The vegetarian expecting the host to pander to her.

I think A was unreasonable (although I do feel sorry for them and clearly it was not intentional). If someone says they are vegetarian and you say you are happy to make a vegetarian meal I would not then expect you to make a meal including a non-vegetarian ingredient - I realise that there may be some vegetarians who say they do eat it but surely you work on the assumption that if you say you are vegetarian you only eat vegetarian products.

I’m a vegan. I don’t especially think that either party is BU here, except in thinking each other are rude.

I wouldn’t have eaten it ‘to be polite’. But I would’ve been polite and apologetic about my reasons. As a host, if I have anyone visiting who has a restricted diet I generally check that the meal plan I have is suitable for them.

The water is muddied by the fact that people who self describe as “vegetarian” can hold different positions - no red meat, no fish, no meat or fish of any kind, or nothing that contains the by-product of dead animals, but by-products of living animals are ok (dairy and eggs). Yes I know the first two aren’t vegetarian in the accepted sense, but it doesn’t stop people using the term this way.

Assumptions were made on both sides - A should have checked and B should have been more explicit.

From now on I think I’ll serve all meat eaters tripe and onions. Unless they specify in advance, before they know the menu, that they won’t eat it. No more pandering.

The host made an effort of sorts and the guest is a bit ungracious. However, I feel that the main aspects of Vegetarian cuisine really should be part of basic general knowledge, i.e. that many cheeses are made with rennet or avoid serving snacks and foods with gelatine or certain fish sauces, not forgetting Worcester sauce etc. It really takes seconds to Google.

B was rude. I was a vegetarian for many years and if someone did this I would eat it with good grace and say nothing.

Many vegetarians eat cheese. No dairy is normally associated with veganism rather than vegetarianism, as far as I know.

Obviously, if the host knew I was a vegetarian and the host served up meat or fish I would politely refuse.

B should have made it crystal clear what she means by 'vegetarian' if this includes not eating cheese.

B is being unreasonable. All the vegetarians I know eat cheese.

Sorry but causing physical illness or possibly even killing someone is NOT the same as hurting someone’s feelings!

Isn't the point of cooking for someone that it be a pleasurable experience for host and guest? That the guest enjoys the food and that the host feels good for having provided that pleasurable experience? If your bottom line when cooking for someone is not to kill or injure them then your dinner parties must be just fantastic! Also your lack of respect for others' requirements and/or beliefs is appalling. Some people won't eat things just because they don't like them but presumably you don't care about that either because it won't actually kill them? You sound like one of those ultra-rigid parents from the 50s, with that whole 'you'll eat what you're given and like it' philosophy, not a good approach when it comes to entertaining. Entertaining being a key word in this context!

Host should have checked that the cheese was suitable for vegetarians and if in doubt should have checked with the guest.
I thought most people knew about Rennet - it is in the same bracket as Gelatine.