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Original poster

Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

999 replies

neverendingflorist · 11/06/2019 14:16

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

OP posts:
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12
FionasWineShow · 12/06/2019 08:07

Well, if they’ve lived under a rock for 20 years, then yes.

Newsflash - omnivores don't give a shit about rennet.

They don't know it exists. They don't care know what it is, or where it comes from. They don't know that it's problematic for vegetarians.

It just doesn't feature.

Other people's dietary foibles are beyond tedious - people who don't have them, don't make it their business to know about them, apropos of nothing.

Omnivores think vegetarians just don't eat meat. It's that simple.

FionasWineShow · 12/06/2019 08:08

So if you are cooking for a vegetarian for the first time you would read the packets, surely?

If it isn't meat - and they know you're not a vegan - why would anyone think to read the packet...?

Fallofrain · 12/06/2019 08:10

I think theres a middle ground. For me rennet is exactly like the cheese sauce having bacon or lard in it . I wouldnt be able to pick it out or eat it.

Yes we can hear people say that they would (for which i dont judge them), but i guess in the same way as when people saying they are veggie but eat fish or eat gelatin, it doesnt strictly follow vegetarian. Im not sure why people are pretending that its some sort of vegan rule. Rennet is like haggis in my head. Its up to individuals how much they would be bothered

I would be polite about not eating it but definately not eat it. However Ive been there before when someone has made me my own meal (which i very much appreciate) and sadly put something non veggie all over it then when ive politely not eaten it, theyve shouted at me and told me how ungrateful i am and i should try and pick the vegetarian ones out (they cooked my dumpling in veg oil, the other dumplings in lard then combined the two in one bowl). I am very much appreciative of the effort and tried not to draw attention but im not going to try and guess which has lard on it. I guess the frustation of having cooked something that someone wont eat is difficult though

FionasWineShow · 12/06/2019 08:10

I'm making lasagne for everyone, I was planning vegetable lasagne for you, is that ok?

It really isn't going to even occur to someone, who isn't au fait with rennet, to even ask that question.

If it's not meat, people will think it's fine. 🤷🏻‍♀️

GinUnicorn · 12/06/2019 08:11

Wow @MagpieTree did you mean to be so rude? As a vegetarian I wouldn’t eat something made from an animal product. I politely said this and that was your response?

BertrandRussell · 12/06/2019 08:12

If it isn't meat - and they know you're not a vegan - why would anyone think to read the packet...?“

Because they aren’t an ignorant arsehole who has no idea about food production and doesn’t give a fuck about their friends? Just a thought.

Fallofrain · 12/06/2019 08:12

If its something like parmesan than i dont blame the cook for not knowing, but equally i still wont eat it. I wouldnt think the cook is an unwelcoming or anything unless they then got arsey with me not eating it.

LaMarschallin · 12/06/2019 08:14

So if you are cooking for a vegetarian for the first time you would read the packets, surely?

The vegetarian society says that cheese labelling is very unreliable (posted a link upthread; can't be bothered again) and often doesn't state "rennet".
I've Parmesan in my fridge which only mentions milk and eggs.
To be safe, the cheese must mention its suitability for vegetarians. An omnivore may well not know that, checked labels until their eyes crossed and still get it wrong with the cheese.
At the worst, a sin of omission.

Just as an aside, the OP came back to say that neither party was actually rude on the evening and both were apologetic.
I wondered if they both grumbled to OP (C?) later. As might well be expected.

curiositycreature · 12/06/2019 08:15

If it isn't meat - and they know you're not a vegan - why would anyone think to read the packet...?

Do you genuinely believe vegetarian means just not eating cuts of meat? You weren’t aware that other things aren’t suitable for vegetarians? You’re not familiar with M&S vegetarian Percy pigs (or you are and never questioned why there were two types)?

BertrandRussell · 12/06/2019 08:17

It does sound like a genuine mistake. B says- I am so sorry, I can’t eat this because of the Parmesan but i’m fine with the garlic bread and salad” A says “I’m sorry too- I didn’t know. You get two helpings of pudding to make up for it!”
Sorted.

GinUnicorn · 12/06/2019 08:25

Agreed @BertrandRussell but common sense seems to have been replaced by vitriol in a lot of this thread. It’s a shame because cutting down on meat consumption is vital for sustainability. I really don’t understand the hatred towards vegetarians and vegans. Most of us are polite and non judgmental.

INeedNewShoes · 12/06/2019 08:27

Among my allergies I'm mildly allergic to soya and palm oil. These crop up in the most unexpected places.

Similar to the Ceoliac poster upthread, if someone goes to a big effort to cook something that I can eat (working around my nut/pulses allergy) and they don't realise that stock cubes (for example) have these ingredients I can't tolerate, I would 100% eat the dish and deal with the consequences in the middle of the night and next couple of days.

I know lots of people with non life threatening allergies who have done this to save embarrassment at the dinner table.

I suppose the difference between allergies and vegetarianism is that I don't have moral grounds for my allergies and moral grounds seem harder to put to one side than one's health.

FamilyOfAliens · 12/06/2019 08:28

I've Parmesan in my fridge which only mentions milk and eggs.

There are eggs in Parmesan? Are you sure?

FamilyOfAliens · 12/06/2019 08:29

I would 100% eat the dish and deal with the consequences in the middle of the night and next couple of days.

Seriously? What if this was the one time you had an extreme reaction and died? Is it really worth risking this to save yourself some embarrassment?

LimeKiwi · 12/06/2019 08:29

I'm making lasagne for everyone, I was planning vegetable lasagne for you, is that ok?

It really isn't going to even occur to someone, who isn't au fait with rennet, to even ask that question.If it's not meat, people will think it's fine.

This. I'm not a vegetarian, but DH is. People will think "vegetable lasagne with cheese" and they won't think parmesan isn't veggie.
Why the hell would they if most cheese is vegetarian?
In their heads cheese will equal veggie.
You either know it or you don't, so the one a few posts ago saying "ignorant arsehole" is a tad overdramatic - a LOT of people who aren't veggie don't know it isn't.

LimeKiwi · 12/06/2019 08:31

There are eggs in Parmesan? Are you sure?

There are eggs in some. Being allergic to eggs I have to check everything

INeedNewShoes · 12/06/2019 08:32

Regarding 'vitriol', having read the full thread, there seems to be equally as much, if not more, vitriol from the vegetarian/vegan posters towards the ignorant meat eaters who have dared to admit they didn't know about rennet in parmesan as there has been from meat eaters towards the vegetarians.

The most vitriolic posts are doing a wonderful job of undermining the arguments being made.

LimeKiwi · 12/06/2019 08:33

Among my allergies I'm mildly allergic to soya and palm oil. These crop up in the most unexpected places
Similar to the Ceoliac poster upthread, I would 100% eat the dish and deal with the consequences in the middle of the night and next couple of days

You what? That's really not an allergy if you're willing to suck up the consequences lol.
Sounds more like an intolerance to me.

BarbarianMum · 12/06/2019 08:35

Just checked our parmesan packaging. It just says "made from unpasteurised milk". The only thing that suggests it may not be vegetarian is that it doesn't specifically state ""suitable for vegetarians" on it. But unless you understand the intricacies of veggie cheese I can totally see why you might just assume it was fine.

FamilyOfAliens · 12/06/2019 08:35

There are eggs in some.

Eggs in some what? Parmesan has a protected status and the recipe has to be followed strictly to qualify for being called Parmesan. So either the protected recipe contains eggs, or it doesn’t.

I’ve googled and can’t find any reference to eggs being an ingredient in Parmesan, but happy to be corrected with a link. I don’t eat it anyway but I’m still curious.

BarbarianMum · 12/06/2019 08:36

Dont be silly Lime you can have mild allergies.

LaMarschallin · 12/06/2019 08:38

There are eggs in Parmesan? Are you sure?

The wording is: "Lysozyme (eggs)".
You're also told the milk is unpasteurised.
Nothing about rennet.

As I said, you have to look for "Suitable for vegetarians" on the packaging. There's no real reason for an omnivore to know this unless they've picked it up through reading or, like me, have vegetarians/vegans in the family.
A knows now and I don't suppose she'll make the same mistake again.

GinUnicorn · 12/06/2019 08:39

I agree @INeedNewShoes the “ignorant” comments are just a bad. I didn’t mean it was all from one side although looking back my post did read that way.

It’s a shame - host tried to make something vegetarian, inadvertently used an unsuitable ingredient. Veggie isn’t wrong for not eating, host isn’t wrong for not knowing. No one is an arse here.

INeedNewShoes · 12/06/2019 08:40

That's really not an allergy

I assure you I know what an allergy is. There is a vast scale of allergic reactions varying from a reaction affecting the skin or digestive system only to reactions that kill you.

Blood test results and skin prick tests also back this up. You can most definitely be allergic to something without it making you seriously ill.

FionasWineShow · 12/06/2019 08:41

You’re not familiar with M&S vegetarian Percy pigs

What the hell is a Percy Pig?? No, I'm not familiar with them.

Because they aren’t an ignorant arsehole who has no idea about food production and doesn’t give a fuck about their friends? Just a thought.

Calm down.

I don't have any vegetarian friends. One who doesn't eat red meat, but does eat chicken and fish, so isn't a vegetarian.

I do happen to know that some cheeses aren't suitable for vegetarians, but I don't care know exactly which ones. I suggest, as a meat-eater, I'm in the ministry. If you don't know, you don't know.

Yes. Most meat-eaters think vegetarians don't eat meat, and that's that.

It's really not a difficult concept to get your head around.