Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

S1nsidSucks. It’s an uphill battle. On a horse with no legs.

These threads do my blood pressure absolutely no good.

I can see both sides .
A did what they thought was right. (I thought the same) I suspect many people would have also thought so.
B should have been more specific and thankful for the effort even it was wrong. .
How was A to know?

Who may then get the impression that 'Vegans' drink milk and eat eggs

Oh ffs are you being deliberately stupid? EVERYONE KNOWS vegans don’t eat dairy and eggs. Very few people know Parmesan isn’t vegetarian. If she’d told the host she was vegan would she have avoided this problem and not been served any cheese? Yes!!

I wonder if it hadn't been the cheese, then it would have been something else.....

S1nsidSucks. It’s an uphill battle. On a horse with no legs.

Would that not be a horseradish?
Sorry, I’ll get my coat.

Ideally A should have googled "vegetarian" if she didn't know what it meant, but including Parmesan was a genuine mistake and probably an easy one to make. The situation is her fault but I don't think she's being unreasonable as long as she apologised and offered an alternative (even if that meant ordering B something on Uber eats). It would be unreasonable and rude to allow a dinner party guest to go hungry because of her own misunderstanding.

B is correct that she should not have to provide a list because the information "vegetarian" should have been enough. Clearly more communication was needed - did A tell B it was her first time cooking for a vegetarian and/or that she was making lasagne? If so then B could have avoided this situation by checking whether A knew about Parmesan.

Can't believe I've scrolled all the way down to the bottom of a 500 post thread and there are STILL people saying Person B must be vegan. Honestly, it's been explained in practically every other post that parmesan contains rennet! How thick are you people?

B was very unreasonable.

If I was A I would've said "okay cool, I'm planning on making lasagne but I'm going to sub mince for veggies for you. Is this okay?", which would give B the chance to say "that sounds perfect, but just a heads up that parmesan isn't vegetarian so if you're planning on using it could you just leave it out of mine? Cheddar etc is fine though". Because if B wasn't told what A was cooking for them, why would they be expected to list a load of foods that aren't vegetarian? Are people expecting B to have sent A an article detailing hundreds of foods that aren't vegetarian? There are thousands of dishes that don't contain parmesan. If I went to somebody's house I'd tell them that I'm vegetarian, I wouldn't reel off a list of food I don't eat. And if they told me what they were making I'd say it sounds delicious, and if I need to mention something like the above I will do.

I don't think either position is unreasonable and it's not worth ruining a friendship over. A and B should make up and move on.

@Cannotresist actually halloumi generally is vegetarian these days.

BTW that wasn't aimed at Hither.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

If this is aimed at me maybe read what I actually said? I said she should say that she’s vegan to avoid the host using things that are normally considered safe for vegetarians. Not that she IS vegan. Maybe learn to read properly before you call other people thick.

Haha sorry @JesusInTheCabbageVan I thought it was aimed at me

You’re not doing yourself any favours.

Vegetarians never claim to be perfect, being vegan is definitely ‘better. However, they’re doing significantly more than you are, so stop with the ridiculous nonsense you’re spouting about her choice not to eat dead animals, but to eat by products.

Human babies are often breastfed, it doesn’t mean it’s ok for them to eat their mothers flesh.

I'm not vegetarian but I'm savvy about parmesan. Sainsburys Basics 'Italian Hard Cheese' is a good rennet-free version.

For some reason it's gelatine that always trips me up - buying people Rocky Road with marshmallow in etc.

When I was (my type of relaxed laid back) vegtn I would have happy had bread & butter & joined the crowd, tbh, and considered it a nice meal. So I can't understand B making a fuss. People cooking special dishes for me just because I was veggie: feels truly mortifying. I would have hated that.

How was A to know?

By reading the packet of one of a few ingredients in the dish?

It’s not rocket science.

Ahem Hither ^^ Fast moving thread There were people upthread from you who are still saying Person B is BU as she is clearly vegan if she doesn't eat cheese.

Dunno about reading but I do need to learn to type faster

If I went to somebody's house I'd tell them that I'm vegetarian, I wouldn't reel off a list of food I don't eat. And if they told me what they were making I'd say it sounds delicious, and if I need to mention something like the above I will do

I mean if I was looking to make a veggie dish to go with the main I'd sub out the meat, and if I was at all worried I might check it against recipes online for veggie x. No need for anyone to reel anything off.

That said a quick search here yielded an abundance of vegetarian recipes online that contain parmesan, including quite a few for this dish. If host did similar checks they might well assume they were in the clear

I'm quite surprised that there are still people out there who don't know that cheese isn't always vegetarian or that it can contain rennet. I thought that was pretty widely known these days?

Parmesan cannot be vegetarian. It's one of those EU protected food items and as such has to be made with rennet or cannot be labelled as Parmesan.

A wouldn't have expected a coeliac friend to have eaten a dish with "a few breadcrumbs"? I think it's lazy on the hosts side. It takes 2 seconds to check a pack for the vegetarian symbol.

Vegetarian bashing seems to be a bit of a sport on mumsnet. I can't believe people are suggesting B should have eaten the dish when it wasn't vegetarian!!!

"Oh FFS sake coeliac friend just eat the bread roll...."

I thought most people knew that vegetarians don't eat most cheeses.

I'm sorry, you thought wrong.

When I was veggie, all cheese were on the menu for us all, including parmesan 🤷‍♀️

I mean if I was looking to make a veggie dish to go with the main I'd sub out the meat, and if I was at all worried I might check it against recipes online for veggie x. No need for anyone to reel anything off.

I agree, I was just saying that if I were B I wouldn't assume I needed to give more specific directions than "I'm vegetarian" unless A said "I'm making x" and I knew x usually contained an ingredient that is assumed to be vegetarian but actually isn't. But I'm not a very good vegetarian tbh so maybe other people have higher standards.

Also a vegetarian, I would have appreciated the effort the host made and eaten it