Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

Yes. It was a small mistake, no ill-intent on either side. But this being mumsnet, pretty much anything can turn into a heated debate with numerous people absolutely seething that one person in the given scenario deserves to be drawn and quartered.

Ha - we're on, what, 20 pages? At best, both people in this situation were slightly unreasonable for making it into a bigger deal than it needed to be... because it was a genuine mistake. The shit-slinging on this thread is pretty entertaining though

My Mum didn't realise that many herbs and spices, baked beans, and bacon, have gluten in them. She was mortified when she realised that despite her very best efforts, she could have seriously harmed her granddaughter. Sometimes people mean well, they're not thick, they just don't realise that there is something to watch out for in a particular ingredient.

Person B is unreasonable. She should tell people she’s vegan.

@Hithere12 Why? She's not vegan. She's a vegetarian so she doesn't eat parmesan, because parmesan contains rennet (taken from calves' stomach lining).

If I found out a friend had told me something they'd made was vegan so I'd eat it, but it wasn't really, that would be the end of the friendship for me.

If they'd realised afterwards and apologised I'd be upset, but ok, mistakes happen. If they lied to me it would show they had such a lack of respect for my beliefs that I wouldn't want to spend time with them anymore.

Why? She's not vegan. She's a vegetarian so she doesn't eat parmesan, because parmesan contains rennet (taken from calves' stomach lining

🙄 Because most people who aren’t vegetarian have no idea that a type of cheese isn’t vegetarian. It would be easier on HER behalf to say she’s vegan as everyone knows cheese is dairy and she wouldn’t of had this problem.

I am a vegetarian and eat parmesan cheese on occasion. I’ve also eaten meat when my host didn’t know I was a vegetarian. She’ll live and maybe be more helpful in future.

LOL I know that - but I think it would be a tad rude for me to point that out.

Next time you’re dining together you should ask them “how long have you been pescatarian now?”

I have to agree about the trendy vegetarians. They do my head in calling themselves that yet still eating fish or whatever. My mum once made a cake with cochineal in and decorated with those little silver balls and then got the mug on because I wouldn’t eat any - I’ve been vegetarian since I was 11, so not a new phase.

LOL I know that - but I think it would be a tad rude for me to point that out

Please point it out! We’ll all buy you a drink!

Actual vegetarians are fucking fed up of this shit. It makes our lives SO much harder. It’s beyond me why they can’t just say ‘I mostly eat a vegetarian diet, but sometimes eat Instead of saying they are vegetarian and eating all manner of non vegetarian things further confusing the hard of thinking.

Individuals not quite getting it right I understand.

But I will do everything I can, within reason, not to eat in restaurants that have fish etc in the vegetarian section selection. If they’re that bloody thick they don’t get anywhere near my food. Idiots.

Last year the vegetarian menu option at a wedding was Salmon. Salmon. You couldn’t make it up.

I am a vegetarian and eat parmesan cheese on occasion. I’ve also eaten meat when my host didn’t know I was a vegetarian. She’ll live and maybe be more helpful in future.

FFS! You’re NOT a vegetarian! You follow a vegetarian diet when it suits you. What’s the difference between you and someone who does meat free Fridays?

I’ve been a vegetarian for almost 30 years and have always known that Parmesan is made from animals. However, I may have forced it down on one occasion to not make a fuss. Loads of other cheeses are fine to eat.

I don’t think either were unreasonable. It was just a mistake on A’s part - as evidenced by this thread a lot of people don’t know Parmesan is vegetarian. I pointed it out to the chef in the local pub recently (vegetarian dish on the menu contained Parmesan) and he was horrified, he’d been cheffing for 20 years and had no idea!

However B certainly wasn’t being unreasonable either. She doesn’t eat any bits of dead animals, end of story, and to suggest that she just forget about this to save A’s feelings is a completely ridiculous suggestion. I would have done the same as B (and have done in restaurants). She apologised for not being able to eat it, I don’t see how she was rude. I’m sure she didn’t try to make the host feel bad, but there was no way as a strict vegetarian she could eat the lasagne. All just unfortunate but nobody’s fault.

Next time you’re dining together you should ask them “how long have you been pescatarian now?”

because relationships between me and certain members of my family are strained enough - and they're not known for their sense of humour!!

So I think, on balance, it's most probably best if I don't try, and ask them to bring their own instead?

I'd be quite taken aback at being asked to BYO. In over 30 years of being pescetarian no-one's ever asked me to do that. The simplest thing is to go on one of many vegetarian websites and use a specified vegetarian recipe. They will flag up things like the possible problems with the type of cheese.

Could they not simply lift the parmesan off the top and eat the rest?

No. The OP has said the parmesan was in the white sauce.

B could have thought about mentioning it or handled it graciously.

Well as has been said, it's difficult to list all the things which are or aren't vegetarian. It sounds as if B did handle it graciously but A got the hump and wanted said list from her. It is easier to check the specific ingredients you're using are vegetarian than to ask a vegetarian to list everything with hidden animal ingredients in it.

It always amazed me how many times a vegetarian at a bbq has judgementally eyed my juicy burger while stuffing the acid from a sheep’s stomach (halloumi) relishingly down their gob. Usually if you point it out it’s not vege they don’t believe you. Guess this answers quite how lacking basic education (I’m sure I learned this in food and nutrition in the pre snowflake days they taught kids to boil eggs and of course they don’t teach such life skills any more )

This thread answers that.

I am a vegetarian and eat parmesan cheese on occasion. I’ve also eaten meat when my host didn’t know I was a vegetarian. She’ll live and maybe be more helpful in future

No, you’re not vegetarian. Do actual vegetarians a favour and start calling yourself a flexitarian if you need a label so badly you’re willing to use one that’s incorrect.

I think it was a genuine mistake and both should just make up.

DH is a strict vegetarian (from birth) and would not have eaten the meal knowing that there was Parmesan in it. He would however have been mortified at the situation and apologised for not being clearer with his dietary requirements. I'm amazed at the amount of people that don't know about parmesan and various other cheeses not being vegetarian, or pesto for example.

Jetstream

I am a vegetarian and eat parmesan cheese on occasion. I’ve also eaten meat when my host didn’t know I was a vegetarian. She’ll live and maybe be more helpful in future.

Strikes that's a brave to say on here.
My friend's apparently not a "committed vegetarian" because she didn't know Worcester Sauce had anchovies. She knows now and avoids it. Not good enough, though!

Would you like to borrow this very fetching tin hat👒?

Oh don't get me started on restaurants and their lack of understanding about dietary restrictions. . . how about telling a person who is coeliac that they can have the crumbed chicken? (And no, it WASN'T gf breadcrumbs. . .)

Oops. Too late.

@Hithere12. Yeah she should tell everyone she's vegan, to add further confusion to the host. Who may then get the impression that 'Vegans' drink milk and eat eggs. The host can kick off at any future Vegan guests when they refuse to eat the omelette she serves up.

I spent decades around mostly vegetarians eating vegetarian food, was one myself for a bit, and this is the first time in my entire life I've realised Parmesan isn't vegetarian.

So yeah, probably I'm an idiot, but I wouldn't have judged the host for it to be honest.

Also if she’s a vegetarian and not a vegan she can’t be that concerned with animal rights.

The dairy industry is just as cruel as the meat industry!! They put chicks in blenders ffs!! And chain up cows which they forcibly impregnate again and again, and kill the male babies.

So she’ll allow all that but for some reason her morals won’t let her eat Parmesan?

Many vegetarians do eat cheese containing rennet, that is a fairly strict form and a non vegetarian could not be expected to know. Rude (and a little self-absorbed) of B I'd say!