Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

I’m vegetarian. I’d have eaten it. A had gone to the effort of preparing a special meal for her. I think B was rude. The principle of eating an animal product was much less damaging than the incredible rudeness.

Everyone knows that most people don’t know that some cheeses, yogurts, sweets etc are not vegetarian. If B is very strict on these issues she should have said so and brought her own food.

Sound like honest mistake. Parmesan isn't veggie as it contains rennet, so it's not about being vegan, I.e. won't eat diary. It literally isn't vegetarian, so would be the same as being given a plate of bacon for a vegetarian. Don't know how well known that is though. 💁🏻‍♀️

I’m not a vegetarian and I didn’t know about the rennet so B shouldn’t have expected A to know and should have been more clear if she is so specific about what she eats.

A was unreasonable. B was perfectly polite (from the way you’ve described it) in apologising and just saying they wouldn’t be able to eat it without placing any blame on A for an honest mistake.
A then turned round and blamed B for their own mistake. So A was the only one who was unreasonable.

B was rude given a made a valid attempt . Curuios to know Did B drink any alcohol ? Many beers and wine are also not strictly vegetarian.

B was unreasonable and rude, expecting the host to know everything that is vegetarian. However, A was also unreasonable not to check, especially with cheese!

I have a friend who is celiac. I've learned so much more about foods that include gluten that I would never have considered before knowing her. She sent me a link to everything the first time. When I invite her for food, I now always double check that she can eat what I'm planning. I've had to get a little creative at time but it's fun at the same time. A good host will always double check but the guest won't assume that someone knows everything about their dietary requirement.

Person A shouldn't be expected to know every single thing that isn't vegetarian, and person B shouldn't be expected to tell person A every single thing that isn't vegetarian. Sounds like a simple mistake.

It might be hard to believe on MN, but sometimes no one is being unreasonable.

I think that since B said she was vegetarian, A should have been on notice and made sure the ingredients she chose were vegetarian. Much easier for A to check the specific ingredients she chose than B to run through every possible thing A might not be aware of. I also think it would have been rude and patronising for B to say ‘I’m a vegetarian and here is everything I can’t eat’.

I'm vegetarian and didn't realise some cheeses weren't vegetarian

It literally isn't vegetarian, so would be the same as being given a plate of bacon for a vegetarian.

It's really not the same! Pigs are killed for bacon. Cows are killed for beef; the rennet is a by-product. Serving a vegetarian a plate of bacon would be a bizarre passive aggressive dig at their choices, whereas not checking the label on a packet of cheese is an honest mistake.

I'm a vegetarian and I would have eaten it. Life's too short and cheese is too nice to get into that level of detail and frankly if she was that strict she should have provided more guidance.

I also think some people are being dismissive of B’s vegetarianism. She shouldn’t have to switch it off just because A made a ‘valid attempt’. If she doesn’t eat meat, she doesn’t eat meat and even though it was an honest mistake and well-intentioned by A, B shouldn’t have to compromise her beliefs just to appease her.

One of my vegetarian friends always argues that the rennet comes from an animal that would have been killed anyway for the flesh eating carnivores....

Your friend is (a) not a vegetarian and (b) a dick.

Isn't that one of those situations where you do the whole terribly British, 'oh my goodness, I'm so terribly sorry, my fault entirely, oh dear, never mind'. . . on both sides? And then wait until you're both back in your boxes, have a wine, a laugh, and maybe a bit of a bitch if you really are cheesed off?

@midgeland
I'm a vegetarian and I would have eaten it. Life's too short and cheese is too nice to get into that level of detail and frankly if she was that strict she should have provided more guidance.
You aren’t a vegetarian, if you eat animal products to please people or because they’re yummy then you have a skewed view of what being vegetarian is, either be one or stop pretending, sick of all the phoney trendy veggies.
I don’t know anyone myself included who would eat an animal product to please anyone.

I don't think anyone was unreasonable.
When cooking for vegetarians I always ask how strict they are. If they are strict it does have a larger impact than if they are not. So there are a number of cheeses that are not vegetarian. Yoghurts often are not, white processed sugar, most beer and wine, bagels, orange juice, salted peanuts, worcestershire sauce, pesto, etc.

@AliceRR

I’m not a vegetarian and I didn’t know about the rennet so B shouldn’t have expected A to know

Are you for real?

Do you actually believe that if you (personally) are unaware of a fact, then its automatically ok for nobody else to be aware of it either?

Or put differently, you believe that you (personally) already know literally everything that ought to be known by an adult human?

Words fail me sometimes. They really do.

The parmesan I've got in my fridge isn't, afaik, vegetarian but the ingredients mention only milk (unpasteurised) and lysozyme (egg).
If I didn't know cheese can be made with rennet, I would assume that was fine.

Husky voice-over: It's not just parmesan. It's M&S unhelpfully labelled parmesan...

I'm a veggy & wouldn't have eaten it but it was a genuine mistake so I'd have just asked for a sandwich or chips & be done with it!

See, I know all about cooking for coeliacs. I'm really good at that. I realise that wheat and barley lurk in some of the most peculiar places, so I'd actually really rather other people didn't try to cook for my daughter, it's just too big a burden to put on them.

I don't know anything much about cooking for strict vegetarians and vegans. I could give it the old college try (like many cooking for coeliac's) and in all good faith - and still get it wrong.

So I think, on balance, it's most probably best if I don't try, and ask them to bring their own instead?

Isn't that one of those situations where you do the whole terribly British, 'oh my goodness, I'm so terribly sorry, my fault entirely, oh dear, never mind'. . . on both sides?

Yes. It was a small mistake, no ill-intent on either side. But this being mumsnet, pretty much anything can turn into a heated debate with numerous people absolutely seething that one person in the given scenario deserves to be drawn and quartered.

Yoghurts often are not, white processed sugar, most beer and wine, bagels, orange juice, salted peanuts

Did I read that right? These are all unsuitable for vegetarians?

I know about some beers and wine, of course. The Barnivore app is good for checking though.

I think it was an honest mistake but I think it's worth being respectful of people's diets and no-one should be forced to eat anything they feel they really can't out of politeness - as rennet is the lining of a calves' stomach, it may have made the guest very ill or upset. Pecorino is a good alternative as it is vegetarian, but of course not the point I know!

I would have thought a vegetarian would eat cheese but a vegan wouldn't so I would have made the same mistake. It's a genuine error, I think I'd side with person A in this story.

Pecorino is a good alternative as it is vegetarian, but of course not the point I know!

Pecorino is also made with animal rennet.