Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

@QueenOfTheTofuTree as I’ve tried to say several times, not all vegetarians. Some people self describe as vegetarian when they mean just meat and fish. People have varied reasons for the diets they follow, none of my business why, but you can’t use the term and assume everyone will understand the same thing by it - this thread shows why. Berating people and saying “they should know” as some pp have really doesn’t help.

Maybe it is a generation thing. When I was a student, I knew plenty of veggies, but the veggies that were concerned about gelatine were at the stricter end of the spectrum if not vegan.

Again it has nothing to do with being strict. Vegetarians don't eat meat. Rennet is meat therefore vegetarians don't eat it.

There are so many people who don't know what it means to be vegetarian. God help them if they ever work with food and can't get their heads the basics of that. What about other things like severe allergies. That can be trickier. Seriously with all the allergies there are now I really feel this should be taught in secondary school as a mandatory subject.

Uh, okay? The point is is that it has nothing to do with being strict. If you're a vegetarian you don't eat meat. Rennet is meat therefore it is not vegetarian. Strict doesn't come into it.

I've been a strict vegetarian for 45 years and I'd have eaten before going there and just asked for a small very simple salad (tomatoes and lettuce) so I could be still social and eat with everyone.

I have found eating with other people the biggest challenge to being a vegetarian. I have been called rude for saying "no thank you" to dishes containing meat. "What's wrong with you refusing our food" was said to me once.

My husband's father married this woman who kept on insisting I eat her food no matter if I had just popped in for a minute on my way passed the house. It became a game for her. She tried to tell me it was just chicken or hotdog and 'wouldn't hurt'. (?) She only did it in front of FIL and I found out later it was a demonstration to prove how unfriendly I was. If he wasn't home then no food was offered. (FIL was a dipshit and had no idea what a vegetarian was. He thought it was someone who loved vegetables best of all).

I finally told her that meat was repulsive to me - no matter who cooked it and how would she feel if I offered her a cat turd on a plate. FIL thought this funny and she finally backed off.

B is being unreasonable. "B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat." On that basis she cannot expect A to know them all.

A tried and didn't quite get there but they were not an intentionally bad host. I'm fifty-something and only learnt Parmesan was not vegetarian last year when it came up on the One Show & they were going round restaurants who also didn't know it wasn't vegetarian.

It would not have automatically occurred to me that B wouldn't eat parmesan. My vegetarian friends eat parmesan so honestly it would not have occurred to me. That's based on me not being enough educated on the subject.

Yes, A could have sent a lot of ingredients to B. Also A could have done more research. B also shouldn't blame A for anything, they were not purposefully snubbing her chooses.

A is rude.

A attempted to be thoughtful, made a cockup, B explained why s/he couldn't eat it. I understand A being really frustrated and annoyed but I also don't think A's ignorance of what vegetarianism involves is B's fault.

Basically A tried hard but screwed up, and took his/her frustration out on the veggie guest.

We had a dinner guest once who would not eat the (at that time very expensive) vegetarian cheese I had bought for her because she said it might be contaminated. She was wearing a (real) leather jacket at the time

I'm amazed that people don't realise that all cheese is not vegetarian by now.

But how the hell would they know if no one had told them? I certainly didn't learn it in school. I only found out by accident quite recently (possibly through a similar thread to this). Before then, it genuinely would never have occurred to me that cheese might contain anything other than milk (in terms of animal products).

By strict vegetarian I mean folk who also avoided “consuming” dead animals in other ways, such as leather, glues and art supplies.

Well this is an interesting post. My daughter is pescatarian. No meat products - but she didn’t know parmesan wasn’t vegetarian.

This did make me think about a mistake I had once. Big family Xmas. I did all the cooking without any help (would’ve gladly accepted some). My BIL showed up with his ex’s daughter (not his child, she was born years after he and ex broke up but he would still have her as is the sister of his children). No problem. The more the merrier. I was bringing out the dishes to the dining room, going back and forth from kitchen to dining room with platters/bowls of food. Normally people wait for me to finish before eating but for some reason not this time. When I’m finished bringing everything out and sit down to start the meal, I’m told she’s a vegetarian but will eat the non- meat items. She’s eating the roast potatoes when she’s telling about being vegetarian and also says how good the roast potatoes are. Of course it’s because of the duck fat they’re cooked in!

not eating cheese doesn't make her vegan. Vegetarians can eat cheese, but not parmesan as it contains rennet. You'll see in supermarkets the alternative 'vegetarian hard cheese'.

I wouldn't have eaten it either. Won't change my beliefs to be polite for an evening... would appreciate the effort but ive avoided anything like that for 12 years.

You’ve got to be quite good culture unaware to not know that some cheeses contain animal product.

However neither were really in the wrong. The host made a mistake, and the veggie went hungry. Worst things have happened.

I’m not understanding the ‘vegetarians’ who say they would have eaten it, you’re not a vegetarian is you eat animal products 🙄

If she was in doubt she should have checked
She wasn’t in doubt. That’s the whole point. To most non-veggies, cheese is vegetarian. And so is beer, wine, sugar, etc.

Vegetarians don't eat meat. If B doesn't eat cheese then she should have made that clear. Most people would expect vegetarians to eat cheese.

No, vegetarians don’t eat meat, fish or animal products such as rennet, gelatine, and so on.

I’m amazed that even these days there are people who don’t know that, especially someone who hosts dinner parties.

Having said that, if B was quoted verbatim, she was being rude.

If you’re not used to dealing with vegetarians then i think it is easy to assume that vegetarian = don’t eat meat. And tbh I know various self declared vegetarians who just avoid meat and don’t scour the back of packets to check for rennet or gelatine.

If I were B and thought A might be inexperienced in vegetarian cooking then I would have said something like “apart from the obvious meats I also avoid animal products such as gelatine and rennet which appear in a surprising list of things - do of course feel free to give me a quick ring if you’re unsure on a product”

GraceSlicksRabbit / AnthonyCrowley / I remember being surprised by parmasam but it clearly states on the label that it's not suitable for...Are you sure? In my experience it may be lacking a label that says “suitable for vegetarians” but is unlikely to state expressly that it is NOT suitable

It’s a dickish move to try to point score in this way.

Secondly, you’re wrong, there are plenty of products that state ‘not suitable for vegetarians’ including many cheeses.

"Fermentation-produced chymosin is used more often in industrial cheesemaking in North America and Europe today because it is less expensive than animal rennet"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet

Some people self describe as vegetarian when they mean just meat and fish.

These people are wrong though, vegetarianism has a clear definition.

Anybody who eats rennet/gelatine etc cannot 'self describe' as vegetarian.

I think B was rude. A tried really hard to do the right thing and made a separate dish.

I didn't know about parmesan and rennet i must say. Will remember now.

But cheese such as Parmesan are protected legally and have to be made with rennet to qualify for the authentication.

Same as gruyere, Roquefort, etc.

Thankfully there are lots of vegetarian alternatives available in supermarkets.