Who was being unreasonable - vegetarian or host?

[neverendingflorist]

Going to try and keep this as short as possible.

Person A invited a group of people over for dinner, including person B who is a vegetarian. A didn't know B was a vegetarian at the time, but B let A know when accepting the invite. A said this was fine. A made lasagna for everyone for dinner, subbing the meat out for roasted veggies for B to make a separate dish. When dinner came round A explained to B what she had made for her and explained what it contained including parmesan cheese. B said sorry, she could not eat it as parmesan is not vegetarian. A said B should have really told her she could not eat parmesan as A thought vegetarians could eat cheese and wouldn't be expected to know these things as she hasn't cooked for vegetarians before. B said lots of things are not vegetarian that aren't just meat/fish and it would take forever to make a list of all things including which cheeses she could/couldn't eat. A thinks B has been very rude and B thinks A has been a poor host.

So who was being unreasonable? I am aware this is pretty much a non-event and should not have escalated in to a big disagreement, but I am interested on general opinions.

Just an aside but... Does B drink wine? Most wine uses the finings?

Apparantly in order for it to be called parmesan it must contain rennet so not sure where I dreamed up vegi safe parmesan from.

Anyway I have some in the fridge and the label is clear.

This listing for cheddar cheese that is clearly marked suitable for vegetarians, versus this one for parmesan which is not and does not say “unsuitable”.

I'm vegetarian and I wouldn't have eaten it. If you are veggie then eating a meal with cows stomach in it would be hard to swallow.
I'm surprised people aren't aware that being vegetation is more than just fish and meat.
Equally if I am invited for lunch I answer "I would love to come but am a picky veggie, would you like me to prepare a veggie dish to help out?"
If the host says they will cook I reply "thank you that's great, I can eat everything but meat/fish/certain cheeses and gelatine. Basically if something is veggie it will be labelled as so, no label = probably not veggie. If you need to check anything let me know"

Saying that... I don't get invited for lunch very often.

How was she supposed to know that the host was planning on serving parmesan How was the host to know whether they were a strict vegetarian that avoided all by products of dead animals, not just meat and fish? Both parties should have been more explicit.

Many of you are expressing frustration that A didn’t automatically know what B meant when B said they were vegetarian. As I’ve said, there were assumptions made on both sides there, but outside MN land, a roast veg lasagne is firmly vegetarian and no, I didn’t know Parmesan isn’t vegetarian. Wasn’t covered at school, but then I went in the dark ages obviously.

Yes, it's not strictly vegetarian but it's one meal that's been made for her and it won't kill her.

Well maybe it wouldn't actually kill her but it would land me in hospital very ill, perhaps B is similar.

B should have eaten it as the host went out her way to try and accommodate her.

Well no B couldn't eat it they're vegetarian it isn't. As a host if you are catering for dietary requirements you need to research what they are, vegetarian, vegan, gluten free whatever, that's not going out of your way its simply hosting.

As a vegetarian who simply can't eat anything meat, fish, poultry, crustacean or products thereof I do make a point of checking what is being offered anywhere but I definitely don't think B was rude by politely declining to eat it.

I suspect that the host in this case would not know what rennet was.

A made a mistake. B accepted that graciously. A then told B the mistake was B's fault.
So if anyone was being rude.... A.

Assuming that B is not allergic, or will have some sort of health problems, what purpose is served by refusing to eat the lasagne? Other than pissing off the host who had gone to some inconvenience to cook B her own special meal. And creating a general impression that some vegetarians are dicks?

BIBU

Well if it says "calf rennet" like on my pack it's a massive give away it's not vegetable rennet. I suspect A didn't read the ingredients and just assumed that cheese is cheese.

Do you all think that B should have listed every possible non vegetarian food that isn't meat or fish then? How was she supposed to know that the host was planning on making a lasagne? Was she supposed to mention the hundreds of different things that A could have used that were not vegetarian?

I'm not sure how B was being rude...I'm not a vegetarian, but I know that many vegetarians feel sick or nauseous when they think about eating a dish with meat products in it or they feel completely unable to eat it. OP has said that B was very apologetic, how was she rude by simply apologising and saying that she couldn't eat something because it went against her beliefs?

The majority of vegetarians would think it was as bad as eating a bacon butty. That's why they didn't eat it.

Anyway OP are you A or B?

Sunny "I'm surprised people aren't aware that being vegetation is more than just fish and meat."

I wonder if it's a generational thing. I first went veggie nearly 30 years ago.

re the rennet, my mother knows a couple of vegetarians - in their 80s - who wouldn't know and don't check. Also when my mum first arrived in this country, she knew that chips were cooked in dripping or whatever and just wasn't fussed.

people have many reasons for being vegetarian. I think if you have any dietary requirements, the onus is on you to explain them to your host.

but I do hate the way everyone is expected to know everything these days.

@funnelfanjo

It has nothing to do with being strict. Vegetarians don't eat meat and meat byproducts. If it contains bits of dead animal then its not vegetarian. The fact that you can't see the dead animal doesn't suddenly magically make it veggie.

A lot of pesto isn't vegetarian because of Parmesan.

If you are cooking for vegetarians or vegans you need to ensure all of the ingredients are suitable. Some cheeses are not vegetarian and the onus is on the host to find out which are and which aren’t imo.

A was unreasonable, a vegetarian shouldn’t be expected to eat something non-vegetarian just to appease a host who didn’t check the ingredients.

Could have assumed that it was something to do with a traditional Italian process that involved working machinery with the bit of your leg between the knee and the ankle ? To be fair it is pretty bizarre that cheese is made with bits of cow, would not be the first thing that sprang to mind if someone has not had to look this stuff up before.

A made an effort but made a mistake, she or he could have done a bit more googling though to just check the recipe. B shouldn't obviously be supplying a list of everything she can't eat but she could relax a bit if someone's been kind enough to cook for her. Both sides a bit unreasonable

How was the host to know whether they were a strict vegetarian that avoided all by products of dead animals, not just meat and fish? Both parties should have been more explicit.

Rennet is literally cow's stomach. It is explicitly a meat product. Rennet is therefore quite clearly not vegetarian as it contains a meat product. It does not make you a 'strict' vegetarian for not eating products with meat in, that makes you a normal vegetarian. Avoiding 'all products of dead animals' isn't strict, that's literally the definition of a vegetarian. Do you know what a vegetarian is?

The vegetarian is being extremely rude.

Host tried her best to accommodate with the knowledge she had available
.
Vegetarian should have communicated she was a very strict vegetarian and this included items such as Rennet in cheese and presumably eisenglass(sp?)in wine which people inexperienced with strict vegetarianism or veganism would not know.

In that position B should have declined, said sorry, thanked the host for their efforts and said that they would be quite happy with an omelette/cheese on toast/anything which could be got together by the host quickly. Then should have reassured the host it was no problem and it was the best cheese on toast/whatever they'd had and thanked them for a lovely evening.

They both made honest mistakes. It didn't occur to A to check the cheese would be suitable, and it didn't occur to B that the host would use Parmesan as to B it's a basic no-no.. As a longstanding vegetarian I couldn't have (excuse the pun) stomached it, knowing for sure it contained actual Parmesan, but I might have been able to convince myself that A had in fact bought a vegetarian-friendly parmesan-style Italian hard cheese, as it's cheaper.

Agh, B is not a strict vegetarian. They're a normal vegetarian.

But lots of people don't know what rennet is or that it's present in some cheeses!!!

FFS. YOU CAN'T CHECK FOR WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW EXISTS

Most cheeses were made with animal rennet only 30 years ago.
You could buy 'vegetarian cheddar' in Sainsbury but it was twice the price. Now most of the supermarket budget cheeses are veggie.
Most continental cheeses and many farmhouse cheeses still aren't vegetarian, including common ones like president brie, for instance.
Colston Bassett stilton uses animal rennet, whereas cropwell bishop uses a vegetarian version.
I did go to school in the dark ages: when it was presumed that (almost) all cheese was made with rennet and vegetarians were hippy weirdos. Lots has changed since then but I think we are all less aware of where food comes from and how it is made.!

In this case I think that neither party was unreasonable. A didn't do much prep on what constitutes a vegetarian lasagne though.