To think men shouldn’t come to a breastfeeding support group?

[Sexnotgender]

It’s a group SOLELY for breastfeeding support.

I know I’m probably being a grump but a man there totally changes the dynamic.

Baby was 5 months old so not a newborn with an overwhelmed mum which I would kind of understand.

Dons tin hat...

Fifth time! That service wasn't offered.

But did you ask? I doubt that they would refuse to help.I don't think that your babies needs trumps those of all the other babies whose mother wouldn't attend because you DH is there. They should be able to accommodate both.

I agree OP.

Unless the session is specifically for men or partners then they have no place there ( breastfeeding counsellor of 19 years experience)

My organisation does not allow men- or indeed any other type of friend/partner/family member unless a special need for it.

The thing we should all be focusing on is how we improve access to appropriate care, support and information for everyone. Whether we need or want a whole family approach or female only spaces should we not demand them and put pressure on government to deliver services we want and that meet our needs?

Last week What Matters to You day was held - whether we were invited to take part in any activities or not maybe we should be getting in touch with our politicians and service providers to tell them what matters to us?

www.england.nhs.uk/what-matters-to-you/

Celebelly - I don't know what they were, hence my use of forward slashes.

I looked into paying privately. There was no one within a fifty mile radius. Not that I should have to pay privately for something I could be excluded from due to disabilities - I don't have an income as it is.

The amount of men's rights activists who show up on a thread about breastfeeding spouting utter codswhallop about inclusivity (meaning excluding any woman who wishes for same sex support and privacy) proves exactly why men are not welcome.

Breastfeeding is normal. It doesn't need "normalized". Men pushing their way into a supportive group for breastfeeding mothers are about as welcome as wives popping along to prostrate cancer support groups to feel included.

The mindset that needs changed is that of antagonistic unsupportive y-chromosome owners who think that sex is not a protected characteristic and that women had better just shut up and stop making a fuss about nothing every time biology is a factor.

He does, actually. In most women's clothes shops where I live, the disabled cubicle is inside the female changing rooms. He has never been challenged, stopped or even looked at in a funny way. I guess the big, fuck off wheelchair gives people a clue as to why he's there.

It's a separate cubicle with a door/partition though so not the same thing. He wouldn't go in the main area of a changing room surely?

At the breastfeeding support group I help run, if a man comes with his partner they are seen in a separate room so that the group area can remain women only. That works because there are 2 of us running the group so one can be one to one with a couple and one can stay with the main group. It's inappropriate to allow a man to attend the main group in my opinion!

Isn't this surely the way? I absolutely and heartily disagree with the idea that TheDeflector wouldn't be able to access support with her DH, who is her carer. But in an ideal world there would be both mixed sex groups AND women-only groups. And it should be clear to everyone in advance which one it is, and there should be policies in place to support everyone.

Not just allowing a bloke to hang around just because.

The main area of a changing room? As in the corridor you walk through where all the doors are? Obviously, to get to the disabled cubicle.

TheDeflector In our local swimming pools, there are no cubicles, just an open changing area. That is the kind of area I meant. And there is a separate disabled changing room. So no need for male carers to go into a woman's area.

Our local swimming pool has a communal changing area. Our local clothing shops have cubicles, even in the women's changing rooms. He accesses both.

I don't swim, so there would be no need for me to go to a pool with a female only space.

My husband came with me when I went to a breastfeeding support group, I needed his support as well as the support of the group. I would have been annoyed if he’d been asked to leave.

And it is about reasonable adjustments. That does not mean that everything has to be accessible in the exact same way. There are things I can not go to that can never be reasonably made accessible e.g. in listed buildings with stairs or inherently physical activities, or that are just too difficult to access e.g. when I have to use a wheelchair, getting the space on the bus over a buggy is just too much like hard work.
The support element will be little different from lots of groups aimed at parents and babies. What matters is the practical support.

I'm really stuck on the fence with this one. I totally get your points about not wanting to discuss problems openly with a strange male present, demonstrating feeding and positions etc. But, I had the most traumatic birth and recovery which severely impacted my confidence as I was house bound for so long after birth. My husband came to baby groups, one to help me manoever and to carry our son as I couldn't. It wouldn't even cross my mind to ask if he could attend something like this or request a private session. Maybe the companies running these groups need to make clear boundaries, I know I would of appreciated them. Imagine how some of these men feel who attend, maybe not realising what to expect?

The main area of a changing room? As in the corridor you walk through where all the doors are? Obviously, to get to the disabled cubicle.

I'm not talking about a changing room where everyone is in a private cubicle. I'm talking about a changing room where there is a communal area with no doors. Surely he would go into one of those with you?

TheDeflector Your male partner accesses a communal women's changing room?

I’m a bit shocked at this thread.

If a woman posted a thread saying she was at the end of her tether, really struggling with post natal depression, too anxious or depressed to even go to a breastfeeding session, I’m sure that people would be suggesting she sees if her partner could go with her to support her. You’ve got no idea what’s going on in that woman’s life, so to suggest the man is ‘pushing his way in’ or ‘mansplaining’ or ‘being a tool’ is shocking.

I do personally agree with you, and I would be more comfortable with it being women only, but you need to consider that people have very different experiences and post natal depression in particular is absolutely horrendous.

My husband came with me when I went to a breastfeeding support group, I needed his support as well as the support of the group. I would have been annoyed if he’d been asked to leave

Diddums. What about the feelings of the other women there who don’t want a strange man looking at their exposed breasts?

Dungeon - there aren't any where I live.

I struggled desperately with bf and pnd and felt unable to go to a session with men present, so as a result had no-one to talk to and no support; I stopped bf far earlier than I wanted as I could not figure it out.
Situations like the pp where they are reliant on physical support are different. Others upthread who are all about their beloved husband wanting to be supportive - why does a man's wish to be supportive trump my wish to feed my baby? I could not have got my breasts out in front of a strange man for all the money in the world.

I go to a great one and it is quite normal for Dads to come along with tiny babies. My DH did as we were referred by the health visitor to discuss next steps with regards to the feeding plan my baby was put on in hospital. He did only come the once though.

While I have really valued this female-only space 99% of the time, I do feel as though breastfeeding will only be valued enough to improve rates when men are forced to understand the work (and yes it is work) involved. Sad but true.

TheDeflector sometimes rights conflict. Nobody is more important. Feeling too uncomfortable and vulnerable to access support will mean multiple women cannot access support at all - cannot.

Sometimes groups with needs which are in conflict (the need for a single sex space and the need for a male carer) cannot be reconciled within the same room and moment in time.

Neither need/ right / is more important or trump's the other so there need to be two spaces/ groups / sessions

As I and others keep saying.

Just because it doesn't make a neat meme doesn't make it less true. Equally valid needs are not always reconcilable within one pretty coloured circle.

There are separate toilets for the disabled; that's not excluding

For the (small number) of women who physically need their male career with them all the time,
then the group needs to arrange a separate space

It is not OK to exclude all those with cultural / religious rules about separation from males,
all those who would just quietly not attend a group with males present,
all those bullied by their OH

Women must retain single sex spaces in situations where they may reasonably feel their biology makes them vulnerable or embarrassed

Jenny - you seem to be having real difficulty reading.

Can people not disagree with each other without being cruel and unkind?

Honestly women like me who are not prepared to expose their breasts in front of random men, or care about privacy, are always the ones that are told tough luck.
I am so glad I don't have to be in a postnatal ward with men sleeping there, or attend for practical help with breastfeeding and have men there are my breast is poked and pushed around.