What would you think of this email from inlaws?

[LionsTigersAndBearsAndPandas]

Background info: Been dating for 5 years, living together in rented accommodation and engaged. Partner is buying a house. What would you think if you got this email from step fil?

Email: The two of you have the potential to do well in the future and I hope that you have luck on your side and things work out. It isn't always the case so permit me to be a little pessimistic regarding the future. When you take on a mortgage or other long term commitments you can't know how things will turn out years down the road so you both need to plan for contingencies just in case. Don't forget Mum and I have both difficulties in the past and all the subsequent mess of family and finances to sort out and we wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would ask you both to take advice and look at the legal and ethical implications now to ensure that if things go wrong in future for whatever reason, that you both do, not just what is legally right, but what is fair and equitable according to your moral compass. Talk about the realities without the rose coloured glasses and the chances of a long and happy relationship will be much improved. I write this, not as an old curmudgeon, but as a Dad who wants you both to have the best lives you can.

He thinks they should both get independent legal advice- which is true-particularly considering the OP’s extraordinary naivety, which he can’t fail to have noticed.He has sent his message openly to both of them. It’s not a problem if his first thought is for his own child. In fact, it he had wanted to dump the OP in it, considering her naivety, he would have just sent to email to his son.

If he wanted to dump the OP in it, he would have just kept his mouth shut altogether and let the OP's partner get on with it.

It's ludicrous to suggest he's only trying to protect the son, if that was the case he'd simply have spoken privately to the son. He'd not have sent an email to both of them. And in addition she says he tells his parents everything so high chance the father knows she's not on the deeds.

ParanoidGyndroid
He's not really that interested in his DSs partner of a couple of years. Why would he be?
Theyre not even serious enough to buy a house together.
Are you unable to do basic reading comprehension? OP says in the first line of the OP that they have been dating 5 years and are living together and engaged.

And as for buying the house together, OP has no income and no savings. How do you propose that someone buys a house when they have no money for a deposit and can’t get a mortgage?

I don’t actually see a problem with putting your own child first. I’m sure I was more important to my mum than my dp was, and she loved him and we’d been together for 30 years when she died.

Sounds sensible to me too although perhaps a bit detached rather than written as I might expect a family member to write.

The advice is sound though. You're not married so discuss a tenants in common split and a declaration of trust to protect your deposits if one is putting in more than the other.

Your future FIL is trying to protect both of you from getting into a potential shit situation should you ever split up

I don’t actually see a problem with putting your own child first.
I agree Bertrand

But as this is the DP's stepfather it may be that he is more objective hence the email and advice to both.

BertrandRussell

It’s natural, but doesn’t always incline towards fairness. My DH’s parents are very fond of me, I believe, but of course would throw me under the bus for their son if they had to.

GraceSlicksRabbit

You sound nice. Yes, I am completely unable to do basic reading comprehension.

By “couple”, I meant an indistinct small few. Yes, they’ve been dating for 5 years, but were they “partners” from week one? Would his parents have regarded them as such in the early days? It was the DFs viewpoint of the relationship that I was trying to imagine, and
I’d imagine that he’d likely not have considered this relationship serious until they were engaged.

And yes it’s perfectly possible to buy a house with your future spouse without having a penny to your name. You don’t have to contribute financially to be on the mortgage or deeds (previous PP have said they have done this).
It makes sense to make things joint in this scenario, but the OPs partner has chosen not to, leaving her in a very vulnerable position.

I know this isn't what you want to hear but I think the email is the least of your problems.

After reading your latest update, I have to say I agree with this. I can't imagine having a partner who practically had to OK everything with his parents.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with putting your child first Bertrand, I think most of us would. I certainly would.

But lots of posters on here think that the DF here is looking out for them both equally, and that it’s really “sweet”.
Personally, I very much doubt it!

Given that the advice was sent to both and simply advocated that each gets independence legal advice, where is there any evidence of bias towards his step son? ParanoidGynodroid or herculepoirot2?

The stepson has something to protect, Rafferty, the OP does not; getting advice on protecting one’s assets is far more beneficial for those who actually have them. Equal advice that has unequal benefits.
The wording of the email was so vague and open to interpretation which made it pretty suss to me: a PP said something along the lines that he used “weasel words and obfuscation” rather than set out clear advice. I agree. Also, it made sense to send it to them both as the OP may find out anyway, or be told by her partner. This way it seems fair.

And I said before, who is just as concerned about their child’s partner as their child?

Of course I may be completely wrong, but that is my take on this.

“It’s natural, but doesn’t always incline towards fairness. My DH’s parents are very fond of me, I believe, but of course would throw me under the bus for their son if they had to.”
Of course they would!

I think you may be living up to your user name Paranoid

The facts are that he gave neutral advice to both.

OP what are your plans for managing household finances after you are married/have children? Joint finances with joint bank accounts and savings? Everything separate? Equal spending money and everything else pooled in joint accounts? I ask as it relates to the house issue - if you start the marriage with the house belonging to him only, will you be paying him rent or just putting everything in the one pot? What happens when you have dc? If you stop work for maternity leave or if one of you goes part time? I think you need to have some wider conversations about money. You also need to speak to your partner about what exactly his parents know about your financial position- there's no reason you shouldn't KNOW what he's told them (and clarify how you feel about him oversharing) if you are getting married.

And you really need to address how he relates to his mother. You can't change her behaviour but he can change the way he reacts to it. Will she demand every xmas with you at her place when you are married/have children? That's insane. There's no way I'd marry a man who let his mother have that much influence. It'll make your life hell.

What "facts" Rafferty?
All we have is a pretty oblique email, the meaning of which is open to interpretation.

Right, well a cobtrolling mother aside (this is a much bigger issue), the e-mail seems kindly intended and is actually really good advice. I think your FIL just wants to help you avoid problems arising from petty misunderstandings about money, having everything set out in writing (whether you decide on 50/50 or 50/50 minus his initial deposit or whatever) is the best way to avoid creating indcessary problems. It reads as someone speaking from his own experience and genuinely trying to be helpful without offending you and also trying to insinuate (without dictating) that howyou decide to split ownership is about more than just how much money you put in (hence the reference to doing what is right). Given your updates I also think it’s possible that he may foresee his wife cause problems within your relationship and is trying to mitigate against a messy break up as well?

@ParanoidGynodroidbut if the advice helps prevent problems in their relationship then surely they both benefit? And surely any decision to protect initial deposits doesn’t disadvantage OP in that sjedoesnt loose anything by it? If they buy the house without making an agreement and then break up there will be a legal cobdundrum over the ownership. If they remain unmarried and have no agreement in place and it goes to court OP will end up with very little equity (unless she later contributes a large sum). On the other hand if they draw up an agreement about who owns what OP will probably get a much larger share.

Taken directly from the email
I would ask you both to take advice and look at the legal and ethical implications now..
What is ambiguous or "oblique" about that ParanoidGynodroidbut?

I agree the email is unnecessarily wordy but that the advice is there in black and white.

Well, going by your last post, I wouldn't stay with him. And that solves the house problem quite nicely too.

Do not marry a man who is still tied to the apron strings. Just do not.

I read that as potentially being in your best interests as well as his sons (I'm making the assumption it's from your DP's father) he talks about both of you and doing what is morally right. I take that to mean he thinks your son should draw up some kind of agreement so that if it all goes wrong in a fairly short period, your contribution is acknowledged. Or you don't make any contribution but at least it's acknowledged why right now. And in that scenario hopefully you'd have a decent pot of money saved for the rainy day if it comes.

Look, this board is full of posts from distressed women years down the line from you who never got married and now have a couple of kids, splitting up from long term partners and realising they're entitled to nothing because they aren't married.

Seriously I wouldn't be offended by this, he's gently pointing out a rather unpalatable truth as tactfully as he can and it's in both your best interests to seek independent legal advice.

I think it is nice to both of you and he is encouraging you to have a frank talk of all the what if’s. I don’t think it’s biased towards your partner.

It’s maybe a bit self righteous, and I can see how you might be a little offended but he’s obviously put some thought into it and wanted to give you the benefit of his life experience, which for me coming out of “being young” can see where he’s coming from. I’d have struggled though with his wording 15 years ago

On the other hand if they draw up an agreement about who owns what OP will probably get a much larger share

Not sure what good drawing up an agreement would be. How enforceable would a simple agreement be in the case of OP not having her name on the deeds?
In any case, yes of course sorting things out is a good idea, I’ve never once disputed this. I simply said that the DF most likely has his sons interests at heart far more than his son’s partner’s, and it may be that it was his sons interests he was trying to protect with this advice, however equal it may first appear.

I would ask you both to take advice and look at the legal and ethical implications now..
What is ambiguous or "oblique" about that ParanoidGynodroid

Well it was the whole email I described as oblique, not just one sentence. It goes off into strange territory about ethics and moral compasses, and had I received it I’d have wondered if the sender had been on the gin!

I’ve explained my interpretation (at others’ request... I was kinda done many posts ago) admitted Its just my view and I may be wrong, and have not harangued any individuals for having a different viewpoint.

Not sure why you can’t accept that my view on this differs from yours, Rafferty.

Given how interfering his mother is I'm thinking the email could have been her idea. Especially since he wrote it in a diplomatic way that could be interpreted in different ways