What would you think of this email from inlaws?

[LionsTigersAndBearsAndPandas]

Background info: Been dating for 5 years, living together in rented accommodation and engaged. Partner is buying a house. What would you think if you got this email from step fil?

Email: The two of you have the potential to do well in the future and I hope that you have luck on your side and things work out. It isn't always the case so permit me to be a little pessimistic regarding the future. When you take on a mortgage or other long term commitments you can't know how things will turn out years down the road so you both need to plan for contingencies just in case. Don't forget Mum and I have both difficulties in the past and all the subsequent mess of family and finances to sort out and we wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would ask you both to take advice and look at the legal and ethical implications now to ensure that if things go wrong in future for whatever reason, that you both do, not just what is legally right, but what is fair and equitable according to your moral compass. Talk about the realities without the rose coloured glasses and the chances of a long and happy relationship will be much improved. I write this, not as an old curmudgeon, but as a Dad who wants you both to have the best lives you can.

what is fair and equitable according to your moral compass.

Very wise advice, very tactfully put

Not insulting or implying I'm some sort of gold digger that can't be trusted?

Absolutely not. I am generally a pretty happy go lucky sort of person but even I appreciate that when taking long term decisions such as buying a house, it is really useful to consider and have a plan all possible risks and outcomes. The time to consider the options together is exactly when there is no concern that anything bad will happen.

I would take it as the very opposite of treating you as a gold digger. I would thank him for the thought and the tact used in conveying the message

And also take it as a reminder to get wills & POA sorted out at the same time. They don't need lawyers but for example, our family lawyer charges only a nominal sum for writing wills while covering other business.

Think about it LionsTigersAndBearsAndPandas , you probably have some idea of what might happen if one of your were in an accident, list your job or had a serious life changing disease. Can you see how useful it would be to have thought through how you would handle these things ?

Rather than getting a call from hospital / police, your thoughts are in a spin and you find yourself asking strangers on MN what happens now ?

Then I read your update

Partner will be the only one on the mortgage/ deed to house. Partner is the only one paying the deposit of around 40k. I will be giving a few thousand to pay for moving costs etc. I intend to pay towards everything (rent/ mortgage and bills) when I get a job.

Are you aware of what a precarious position you are putting yourself in? If not, or if you are trusting that your soon to be DH has your best interests at heart, please get yourself informed about how you would be treated under the law.

Your next update is even more worrying

If I'm married and we have children and my name isn't on the deeds what would happen if we divorced. Would me and the children be homeless or would my partner get sole custody?

Please get yourself informed from a reliable source. And make sure you find out about your situation before you are married, too, for marriages of different duration and their impact on asserts owned before the marriage.

Look out for anything you are asked to sign. There will be a paper on which you give up any rights living in the house. It may well be presented as 'just something the mortgage lender insists on'.

Get the answer to the question why are so many strangers advising you to get yourself informed. It would be very sensible for you to know this

If the person writing that email was only thinking of you as a gold digger, why on earth would he have included you in the email. He could have said to your partner 'good on you, glad to see you are avoiding letting her have any share'

It is carefully worded and very sensible advice.

If I'm married and we have children and my name isn't on the deeds what would happen if we divorced. Would me and the children be homeless or would my partner get sole custody

The fact that you don't know the answer to this question should tell you how important it is to follow fils advice

Do people really believe he's looking out for both of them equally?
Between my child and their partner of a few years, I know whose interests I'm far keener on protecting (from the other) and in whose corner I'd stand, regardless of what had gone on.
Advising his son to be fair and thoughtful is great, but surely his loyalties are going to be firmly with his son in the event of whatever.

If you are not married and not on the deeds to the house , your DP needs no protection

You are the one in the precarious position! And clearly you have not sought any legal or financial advice. That is all he is saying. Get some advice!!!

Do people really believe he's looking out for both of them equally

Yes. Because it would be much easier for him to either send it only to his son or speak to him privately. He's also urged them to do not just what is legally required but what is ethically.

So yes I think he's thinking of both of them. Also based on the ops divorce question, it's clear she has no idea of the legalities of marriage or the contract she's entering into, so it seems his email is even more prudent now. Particularly if her partner is equally uninformed.

Given the update on your unequal finances, it makes absolute sense to spend some time thinking through the ifs and buts. I moved into my husband’s flat that he owned with money gifted from his parents. We discussed what we should do pre marriage with both of our parents as we didn’t know what was the best thing to do. In the end, I paid 50% of the interest on the mortgage and our bills and we both saved up money for a deposit on a house. Had we split up, he would have protected his asset and I wouldn’t have sunk money into building his equity. That situation would have been much more complicated if one of us wasn’t earning.

For what it’s worth, I didn’t think it’s fair for you to be putting in a few thousand for moving costs. You need to think about what a fair arrangement would be now, what happens if it takes you time to get a job, what if you had children while being unmarried etc.

I think he put what he had to say in the kindest way possible - I'm not surprised he's tiptoeing around saying anything too explicitly, as he is definitely acknowledging the fact that either of you could dick the other over. When I was buying a house with my partner (and I was putting in the bulk of the deposit although we would be paying the mortgage 50:50), my mum gave me similar advice which did smart even though I know she loves my partner and wants us to do well together.

Why not put both your names on the deeds and draw up a deed of trust? That's what we had to do to buy our house. It ringfences the amount I put down on the mortgage, so when we sell up that money comes back to me rather than us. Additionally we got death and critical illness insurance which ensures that if something happens to either one of us, the other (and our kids) will be able to remain in the house with the mortgage paid off. Talk to a solicitor, OP. You need to be better informed and protected than you are.

Sensible advice, tactfully worded. Sadly, you only have to read these MN boards to see so many people end up in bad financial situations if they split up. Nobody expects to split up when they buy a house or get married, but it it happens. If you take his advice, what's the harm in it? If you stay together forever, then great, it wasn't needed, but no one can guarantee that. Don't take offence at what seems like good advice from someone who had been around the block, hence the 'step' part of the relationship.

And I'd agree, you not being on the deeds or the mortgage means you're the one this email helps, not his son, who has already protected himself. It's you that's disadvantaged here, not your partner.

Why are you not on the mortgage or deeds?

OP, is your father in law to be a solicitor?

It reads to me like he's seen this all before and knows that his son is putting you in a vulnerable position and he is tipping you off in a way, not to assume that you'll be together forever. Or that's how I read it anyway.

he is definitely acknowledging the fact that either of you could dick the other over.

How exactly could the OP 'dick over' her DP?

God I’m going against the grain here, but I would find that incredibly patronising and interfering.

I am a grown up and am free to make, and capable of making my own decisions/mistakes.

He does sounds caring and it’s probably coming from a good place- but it would get my back up!!

Absolutely very sensible and fair. You need to put your feeling to one side and look at this with a business head.

A deed of trust might be an idea to get drawn up.

If/when you do get married and presumably have a job to contribute to mortgage, perhaps you could then be put on the deeds. But until then it's his house and if it all goes to shit (as relationships often do) then it's his and hasn't let someone who has paid no money towards it gets half which is terrible.

It's his family inheritance so his family have vested interest to make sure he is sensible with it.

Also 'planning on getting married soon' is not the same as 'engaged and a wedding date is set and is being planned'. So make sure you're both on the same page!

You are leaving yourself very vulnerable. If he is buying the house alone and you are going to live with him there then you will be asked to sign a declaration to the Bank that you will not claim any equitable interest in the property. This means that you will have had formal legal advice that you will not be able to make a claim on the property in the future. If you do this then you shouldn't be paying towards the property at all and all other living costs should be divided in two (ie all food, bills and utilities) so that he is paying all of the mortgage alone and then 50% of all other living expenses.

If you actually intend that you both share all expenses including the mortgage 50/50 you will be investing in the property with no security.

To protect yourself you should ask you boyfriend to delay buying until you have a job and can join him in the purchase. He can still protect his deposit as you can either purchase as Tenants in Common in unequal shares to take account of the initial deposit monies invested by him or enter into an agreement between the two of you as to how the division of assets would happen if you separated. Of the two an agreement would be the most equitable.

Also, please bear in mind that your contribution to the moving expenses etc should be taken into account also. So if he is putting in £40K but you are paying £5K worth of expenses then he is contributing £35K more not the full £40K. A decent solicitor will be able to draft the Agreement in such a was as to protect you both.

Deccax I think I would think that as well. However, maybe he realises that OP is clueless!

@TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth Of course, but he's worded it very carefully and said they should both discuss it. It shows caring for both regardless of loyalties.

And clearly this was something the OP needed to think about. So he's done her a huge favour here.

Fair, caring, sensible...maybe.

And absolutely none of his business so he should butt right out.

So majority would not be offended, maybe I'm just looking for another reason to get annoyed by partners parents, they are very very involved in his life and it does get on my nerves. Like some have said I want to know what his thinking is behind it because of the way its worded

@CarolDanvers

Would you say the same to the many, many people, so often women, who post here on MN with tales of wow that they didn't realise the position they were putting themselves in.

The OP has made clear that she does not understand the implications so is very vulnerable. There is a chance that we can help make her life different. Is that so unreasonable ?

I think it’s worded politely and it’s very sound advice.

It seems perfectly sensible. nd I also wouldn't read it as being about separation/ divorce, but also death or other issues. It's the kind of advice my dad would have given me and DH.

LionsTigersAndBearsAndPandas what is there to be offended about?

How can you be offended that he thinks you are gold digging? As it stands you have no claim on the house at all!!

Leave it op. The thinking is to make you both consider the financial situation in a caring way. You should be focused on that. Do not fall out with them over this. Everyone here has said they think its a kind, well meant email. Take it as such do t harp on about 'the thinking behind it', he's explained that in the email!!!
Lots of people have crap in laws, you dont, be happy about that.

TheFreaks, surprisingly, I think many PPs do think he's looking out for both of them equally.

It's not impossible though it's possible he was worried that his son would share any message (email or face to face) with the OP so wrote it as he did.

I think if he had written it to be well-intentioned, even-handed but to avoid any misunderstanding or offence then he'd have written it differently though I recognise this is supposition on my part. I think the references to ethics and moral compass are more likely to relate to the OP though I realise these could be intended to be equitable.

I'm not saying it's wrong for the FIL-to be to look after his DS's interests if that is the case, just that the OP needs to be careful about locking in something that might potentially significantly disadvantage her just before she hopefully starts earning.