What would you think of this email from inlaws?

[LionsTigersAndBearsAndPandas]

Background info: Been dating for 5 years, living together in rented accommodation and engaged. Partner is buying a house. What would you think if you got this email from step fil?

Email: The two of you have the potential to do well in the future and I hope that you have luck on your side and things work out. It isn't always the case so permit me to be a little pessimistic regarding the future. When you take on a mortgage or other long term commitments you can't know how things will turn out years down the road so you both need to plan for contingencies just in case. Don't forget Mum and I have both difficulties in the past and all the subsequent mess of family and finances to sort out and we wouldn't wish it on anyone. I would ask you both to take advice and look at the legal and ethical implications now to ensure that if things go wrong in future for whatever reason, that you both do, not just what is legally right, but what is fair and equitable according to your moral compass. Talk about the realities without the rose coloured glasses and the chances of a long and happy relationship will be much improved. I write this, not as an old curmudgeon, but as a Dad who wants you both to have the best lives you can.

would ask him to say what he means explicitly. He's obviously has something on his mind (and I have my views what he means) but you don't want to misunderstand him. It will be interesting whether he continues using weasel words/obfuscation or has the courage to stick his colours to the mast he has erected.

Wise words from @zilla1 although I would try to give him the benefit of the doubt before using words like weasel and obfuscate.

What is your and your partner’s prior relationship with/opinion of this man? Has he been a father figure to your partner or is he newish on the scene? Do you and DP see him often and is he generally a kind and thoughtful person? What he’s like as a person would have a large effect on how I interpreted the email.

(FWIW I think he’s trying to protect DP’s investment, not necessarily bc you are a gold digger at all but bc he has seen how happy relationships don’t always stay that way. Personally I don’t think it’s his business unless he has a close/fatherly relationship with your partner.)

Lions: "If I'm married and we have children and my name isn't on the deeds what would happen if we divorced. Would me and the children be homeless or would my partner get sole custody?"

I think this exactly illustrates your future FIL's point. Get some legal advice, discuss the what-ifs with your partner, and come to an agreement before you go further.

Stand up for yourself , put something into the deposit and go on the mortgage and deeds from the start. You can change the ratios over the years if and when you marry or have children.

I don't agree that everything should become joint upon marriage when one party has put everything and the other hasn't. That is the moral part of it, versus the legal part that says everything is 50/50 upon marriage.

Yes I am cynical having been bitten, so I don't have a problem with people wanting to protect their assets. Once you marry, then you reassess the situation.

My dad who is very financially savvy and slightly over cautious, has given similar advice to me and DH and meant it with the best intentions in the world.

He gave slightly stronger advice to my brother and his wife which went down like a bucket of cold sick, but then they did meet online and marry within 6 months on the back of what we now know to be a fake pregnancy.... DB had just sold his house and she didn't have a penny to her name (although she lied and got caught out, about owning a property abroad).
But even then my dad wasn't being unkind - his financial OCD often results in wise but unsolicited advice.

tbh op you sound pretty ignorant when it comes to law. So BEFORE you get married please do your research on the legalities as it is no joke if you do split up. Your FIL email is spot on, very reasonable advice and very caring. You are VERY very LUCKY to have someone write you that email.

If I'm married and we have children and my name isn't on the deeds what would happen if we divorced. Would me and the children be homeless or would my partner get sole custody?

Different kettle of fish: once you are married, the starting point is a split of all assets 50/50, including the house even if your name isn't on the deeds and assuming there is no ring fencing agreement in place at the time of marriage and in recognition of the impending marriage. You could still end up technically homeless if there is insufficient equity in the house for you to buy a new property on your own.

Great email from thr father and he was completely open and copied you in.

Seems you don't like the message though and it's hit a nerve?

As for divorce, you'd be entitled to half of what came into the marriage after the marriage. Kids support is seperate.

It’s impossible to say for sure what would happen to the house OP. It wouldn’t normally be treated as a straightforward marital asset, but there are some rights you might be able to assert over it.

Why are you not going to be on the deeds? If this is something your partner is insistent on, ask yourself why he is adamant that you must be kept vulnerable when you’re supposed to be getting married.

Do you see now why your FIL is telling you both to get advice and think about how you want to protect yourselves / each other?

Custody of children would be a separate issue to what happens to the house.

@PatoPotato she can’t take anything, she isn’t legally protected.

Different kettle of fish: once you are married, the starting point is a split of all assets 50/50

That's technically incorrect. As a marriage gets longer yes it would move to that direction but thr starting point is neither spouse has a claim on assets prior to the marriage. As the equity will probably appear during the marriage she'd be due half of it.

Jellybeansincognito

I'm assuming as someone who lives there she could make it very difficult and block the sale if need be.

I don't agree that everything should become joint upon marriage when one party has put everything and the other hasn't. That is the moral part of it, versus the legal part that says everything is 50/50 upon marriage.

Whereas some people would say morally, when you get married, you agree to share all your worldly possessions... If he means that (and I don’t think he does) the warning is for the OP. It isn’t, obviously.

Wouldn't find it insulting. I was in your partners shoes with my DP last year, actually more like your (F)DBil. My dad gave me the same advice. Plan now, whilst you get along, what will happen when you don't.
As you're not on deeds or mortgage then you'd get nothing. You don't need deed of trust etc.
Once you're married it is different, your DP may want a prenup if he wants to protect his asset. A prenup is then pretty much worthless at divorce after children anyway as the courts decide in favour of the DC.

(F)DFil should advise his son to consider this sort of thing. Its easy for you and your DP to forget to consider what ifs.

.. although to add to the above, your FIL to be clearly anticipates you will both do well in your chosen careers so hopefully whatever happens you should be able to adequately support yourself and your family in the future.

But as others have said, you should take legal advice on your situation and a whole bunch of possible "what ifs". I think the FIL email was kind and pointing you both towards some appropriate planning and discussion around the whole issue.

How far along are you in your wedding planning? Are you sure you are going to get married and he isn't just stringing you along? Because why wouldn't he put your name on the deeds otherwise?

You sound really naive and need to read up pronto about property rights when married and not married, with and without children. That's so utterly basic it should be taught in school IMO.

Every single word in that email is excellent advice for both of you.

I don't understand why his savings should be used for a deposit while yours are for moving costs. You should pool your savings and split the moving costs. The amount of equity you each then put into the house can be documented and protected.

Unless there's a massive backstory which you're going to drip-feed I can't see anything but pragmatic advice in your future FIL's email.

Good Lord, for a PhD student, you're not sounding too bright, tbh.

This stuff is just occurring to you now??!

If he was implying you were a gold-digger then he'd have sent the email to his son only, surely? He sent it to you both, so he wants both of you to think about it! And he goes out of his way to say you need to do what is right and moral for both of you. It's a tactful message imo, which sounds very carefully crafted indeed, and he is of course absolutely right too.

OP if you aren't on the deeds you'll be in the shit.

I never put exH on them, hence it was easier for me to state he had no interest - not that we ever went to court - no need it was all set out.

If you go on the deeds after marriage you will incur costs. You can't be on the mortgage if you're both not on the deeds I don't think these days - happy to corrected?

I was told to have my Partner on the mortgage I would need to change the deeds likely. Again, not something I'd consider right now.

You could have no claim to anything.

So your FIL and this thread probably just threw you a lifeline.

Get an agreement in place and protect yourself. If he's a good guy he'll ensure both get a fair deal.

That's what I did. And it worked very well when the unfortunate time it needed to be enforced came around.

Yes @Bluntness 100 ! I stand corrected

OP,

I think you are asking the right questions in your 13.30 post. Your position, rights and so on will vary as your family circumstances and contribution evolve. You might want to be careful about agreeing to locking in a position that appears fair now but will not be fair as circumstances change.

It might appear 'fair' that your DPs financial contribution and superior earning is protected now when you don't have a job and don't have children.

Over time, you may end up earning more and contributing more than your DP depending on what field your PhD is in and the intelligence and skills you deploy. I know some quant PhDs who earn mid-6 figures.

You mentioned children - You may decide to have a career break to have and look after children and to 'support' your DPs career with his agreement or preference (as many posters on mums net appear to have done). Or you may decide to return to work. If you have a long career break and your DP's career progresses then you might find yourself at financial risk.

If you haven't already, have a look at some of the posts on other threads where women who have put their careers on hold to have and raise children with their DPs agreement have been left in a pickle when their DP has ring-fenced assets. They are left with impaired earning from a career break, difficulties getting full time work with their caring responsibilities and difficulties paying for a house.

Marriage will legally change your status though not necessarily give you all the protection you might want if you are not on the title deeds of your main residence/property. Children will change the balance of protections again.

It is possible your DPs father has both your differing interests equally in mind (though I suspect not based on a close reading of what appears to be a carefully worded email. Unlike some PPs, I recognise this is supposition on my part).

If your 5 year relationship continues then you will have these as ILs so I would be really interested in what is truly in his mind and ask him so you know where you are with them.

Good luck.

If its advice you didnt ask for then i think its a bit interfering. You're grown ups and should be left to live your own lives.

My now PIL gave similar warnings, in person, but very much in favour of DH. “I wouldn’t want you running off with my son’s money” is the line I particularly remember.

I’d interpret this differently because of the talk of moral compass etc. I think he probably has you both of you and your relationship in mind.

I would potentially be bothered that they were commenting without knowing the full circumstances. That’s what really pissed me off with my PIL. They had given DH £20k and made the assumption that he would be contributing the most. In reality, I was contributing more, having saved for years. They completely shut up when that was explained.

You do need to protect your interests though, particularly with regards to a legally binding understanding about what your contributions will mean while you are unmarried.

If I'm married and we have children and my name isn't on the deeds what would happen if we divorced. Would me and the children be homeless or would my partner get sole custody?

If you divorce then it's a marital asset but I seem to recall reading somewhere that for inheritance purposes it's his.

Your plan is a bad one. Get legal advice.