To put up and shut up with the transphobia on here?

[thetonsillolith]

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

And yet i see literally hundreds of intolerant posts on here and say nothing. Probably because I'm worried about being shouted down.

This is part of the problem isn't it? I should speak up.

Does anybody else feel like this or is it just me?

awaits tumbleweed*

Not all biological woman experience womanhood the same either.

There is one thing that all women have in common, that men don't: the experience of having a female body.

Now could you tell me what all women and transwomen have in common that men don't?

Apologies ginger

I honestly didnt mean to post twice, I thought I’d lost it and then thought the first one wasnt correct so changed it

Ill ask for the first one to be removed

Some posters have said openly that transgender woman are men with a fetish

Lots are. If you're on twitter look at the hashtags #tgirl #transgirl #sissygirl if you want to have to use eye bleach.

JAPAB your sex is assigned at birth by observing the genital of a baby.

Not testing chromosomes. Though chromosomes are also a sign.

Sex segregation doesn't work on chromosomes. Its defined as sex segregated space. .

No one can change sex, including chromosomes.

Your chromosomes, dictate things like muscle mass. Muscle mass being one of the reasons people born men, should not be competing in womens sports. Yet it's considered transphobic to say that.

Tie yourself in knots all you want. But by accepting you cant change sex, you are being (by some definitions) transphobic.

You either accept there is a big issue with the current stonewall definition, and that it's not transphobic to question.....

Or it is transphobic because acceptance with exception.

Currently some transgender people have a fetish.

On this thread I've only spotted one deletion

The deletion was a photo of the rapist Karen White.

TRAs don't like this photo and report it all the time.

Because it shows the absurdity of this ideology.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that transwoman are not biological woman, they are different.

Well, many TRAs do believe exactly that. They have already claimed the word 'women', now they are saying that Transwomen are (and always have been) female.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that transwoman are not biological woman, they are different

So, so many people, trans activists, disagree. And even if they don’t really believe it deep, deep down, they certainly give the impression that they do. This is part of the problem.

I wouldn’t take stonewalls description of trans people any more seriously than I would the heritage foundations values on woman.
Stonewall does more harm for trans people than it does good.

Well then you'd better start speaking out, because right now, Stonewall's definition of 'transgender' is what is being used to shape policy in the UK.

That is what women are getting so uppity about you see?

So if you disagree with it and think it will harm trans people, do you plan on speaking out about it?

The only thing that really gives me any comfort is that out in the real world, the fight for trans rights is being won. Millenials and Gen Zers are the most inclusive and tolerant generations there have ever been. They know and understand so much more about the spectrum of gender (and also the spectrum of sexuality) because we/they are the first generations who grew up being taught about these things at school. There’s still so much to do in the fight against transphobia, misogyny, racism, sexism, homophobia etc but progress is being made and it’s just inevitable really that, with vigilance and effort, the old prejudices will eventually be stamped out.

grew up being taught about these things at school

It's awesome isn't it, get them young enough and you can teach them anything.

I’ve already said there’s issues around it especially self ID. I filled out the consultation last year on it.
Currently to get a GRC you need a diagnosis of GD, lived as your preferred sex for 2 years and plan to for the rest of your life - that is the current legal definition to change your gender. I have no issue with that whatsoever.
I have a huge problem with the way some people on this forum go about it and I do think there’s a lot of hidden hate for all trans people.

I have a question, how do the threads critiquing transgender days or individuals help in the fight for woman’s rights? Do you see that some of the posts on FWR go way beyond concern for woman? And into hatred of individuals or beliefs?

"The basics of a loyal following start young. Ingrain early and have loyalty for life"

AphidEater it sounds as though this issue is very important to you. Could you address some of these points that I posted up thread? I am really trying to understand why TWAW.

The word women, historically, has always meant 'adult human female'. Clearly, transwomen are not female, they are male.
So they are not women according to the historical definition. In order for TWAW to be true, the word 'women' must be given another meaning. How does it help anyone to change the meaning of a universally understood word?

And what meaning would be assigned - having a particular gender identity? In that case, lots of people who used to be women according to the historical definition, suddenly aren't women any more. Myself included. How is it not incredibly offensive to redefine the word 'women' so that it includes some males and excludes many females?

I'm regularly shocked at the bile towards the trans community on here.

Questions/issues raised on women's spaces, hormone blockers and who goes to a female prison are totally valid. Adding that a transwoman will never be a woman, and stating this as a 'biological' fact, does feel to me to be creeping into transphobia. On another thread there were posts ridiculing being trans by comparing wanting to change gender as wanting to be a tree or be tinkerbell. Denying the experience of being trans 'because biology' sounds to me comparable to saying that being gay is a choice.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that transwoman are not biological woman, they are different

Clearly someone hasn’t been reading about the “female penis”. 🤷‍♀️

I do find it ironic when trans allies come on MN criticising GC posters for being shrieking transphobes.

And then go on to post views that show their ignorance of how the TRA community views the situation and/or would be considered deeply TERFY by said community.

Don’t accuse others of being transphobic until you’ve adjusted your own thinking to reflect what the TRA community actually believes.

Currently to get a GRC you need a diagnosis of GD

No you don't.

Well then you'd better start speaking out, because right now, Stonewall's definition of 'transgender' is what is being used to shape policy in the UK

Exactly. “Trans” encompasses everything: Karen White sexually assaulting women in prison, Katie Dolatowski sexually assaulting children in toilets, the fetishists, those with real dysphoria. When people say “transgender” they want all these people to have the same rights, at the expense of women’s rights.

Rufus.

(hey no problem on the double posting, i do it all the time)

I get that people are angry.

TRA's are angry too.

I don't agree with the TRAS reason for being angry. I do agree with the Feministboard's reason for being angry.

Regardless of who I agree with and despite my empathy on the anger, I still don't think that the insulting language helps. All it does is escalate the anger. Entrenches positions and makes resolution less and less likely.

But when I said similar on that thread the other day I was accused of wanting compromise and any compromise or ground given meant capitulation, and that I wasn't a feminist and that I centred men's feelings and supported violence against women.

It's a false equivalence.

Adding that a transwoman will never be a woman, and stating this as a 'biological' fact, does feel to me to be creeping into transphobia.

In what way is a transwomen, a woman? What does 'transwomen are women' mean to you? What common ground do I share with transwomen that means we both fall into the group 'women'?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost

I think you’re mistaken. www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate

Thank you ginger

Hopefully the first post will be deleted because it also wasn't a fair comment to make

early
You can tell them you are heading towards getting top and /or bottom surgery at some point and not have to have a diagnoses of GD.

Adding that a transwoman will never be a woman, and stating this as a 'biological' fact, does feel to me to be creeping into transphobia

Of course it is a fact that a man cannot become a woman. Stating this is not transphobia.

If you think a man can become a woman explain how this happens, what actually happens and at what point you think this has happened enough for you to accept that it has happened.

I've been asking this consistently and it is never answered so go on, answer it.