To put up and shut up with the transphobia on here?

[thetonsillolith]

I am fully supportive of the LGBTQ community and don't feel it is my position to question or undermine those who believe they were born in the wrong body.

And yet i see literally hundreds of intolerant posts on here and say nothing. Probably because I'm worried about being shouted down.

This is part of the problem isn't it? I should speak up.

Does anybody else feel like this or is it just me?

awaits tumbleweed*

There are violent people on both sides of the argument, that doesn't mean all people are violent.

This is a blatant lie. There are no examples of GC women being violent to trans people, and several examples of violence or threats in the other direction.

When people say transpeople are born in the wrong body do they mean it literally? As in, they have a soul and it was put into a body that was meant for someone else?

Butchyrestingface

Thank you for that link.

I do think that insisting on separating based on sex does raise some issues with regards to trans men. But some people refuse to acknowledge them because they then have to admit that it isn't as simple as segregating based only on sex.

There are no examples of GC women being violent to trans people

Is that what was said though? I read that as you can get violent people whichever "side" you are on.
Which isn't a lie, that's true.

CodenameVillanelle

So if you bring in laws based on sex segregation how will you word it? Will it be no trans women allowed in women's spaces but trans men can go into men's spaces so long as they pass?

Or a trans man with full beard and appearing male can perform smear tests on women who request a female nurse because they are female?

It's not as black and white as people seem to insist is it?

I guess lesbians aren't allowed to sleep with transwomen even if they want to now.

Of course they can, don't be so facetious.

Individuals can have relationships with whomever they chose. What they can't do is unilaterally change the meaning of terms. Homosexualtiy means same sex (not gender) attraction. If a woman who has formally been attracted to women finds herself in a relationship with a transwoman she is engaging in a heterosexual relationship, which she is free to do. Calling it a lesbian relationship is a redefinition of the word lesbian and is not the right of any individual to do that.

So if you bring in laws based on sex segregation how will you word it?

There already are laws based on sex segregation. It's trans rights activists who are trying to dismantle them.

I just hide the trans threads (as I will this one). It's mumsnet at it's worse. I guess it's way it continues since people who are tolerant of everyone avoid the topic on MN so those with intolerant views have free license to take over the topic every time.

I do think that insisting on separating based on sex does raise some issues with regards to trans men. But some people refuse to acknowledge them because they then have to admit that it isn't as simple as segregating based only on sex.

Yes, I agree that there are issues around this that would need to be thrashed out. For me, it would be the creation of a third space. I don’t expect transmen or transwomen to use male facilities.

hide it after making a goady comment I see - well played

Are transpeople literally born in the wrong body?

LimeKiwi
You've said that there are violent people on both sides of the debate. Do you mean " Literal violence" or just common or garden violence, please provide a link where Gender Critical Feminists are committing actual violence upon trans people. There are plenty of examples of actual violence from one side and I'd be interested to see actual violence from the GC side.

Don't worry about it just report and if you feel confident enough say something. Women having rights is not an excuse for transphobia. If you find it offensive let someone else decide.

There already are laws based on sex segregation. It's trans rights activists who are trying to dismantle them.

Right. So then all trans men, no matter how masculine they look should use the women's toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards etc? Or can be utilised if a female patient requests a female nurse?

And you can't foresee any problems with that?

Or do you want one law for trans women and another for trans men?

There are so many comments I agree with on here which are not from 'transphobic' people but purely people who are concerned about what this means for the individuals concerned and the wider community.

I struggle with the concept of hormone blockers. Fundamentally changing the natural course that the body wants to take and often irreversible. Also for males who say they are female the blockers are making reassignment surgery very difficult as they have so little to work with due to stopping growth when a child. (I have watched too much I Am Jazz).

I struggle with women who are biologically men being able to change in changing rooms with my daughters. And I hate it that I feel that way. I also struggle with the fact thay girls who are biologically men can compete in the same sports as my daughters as they do biologically have an advantage.

It is not that I am not accepting. I would rather these children grow up and be the people they want to be in life...happy and free. But it does raise concerns and that is just natural when faced with something we have not dealt with before as a community.

Not really sure what I am saying here. Suppose I just wanted to say that just because people raise questions and have concerns does not mean we don't support the happiness of children who feel this way.

Do posters who think TWAW also think Rachel Dolezal is black?

MitziMaybe Lovely transphobia there, have you been physically assaulted over your beliefs? Sexually assaulted? Screamed and shouted at that you're disgusting and vile for how you feel? What a petty bitchy thing to say.

My question was genuine. I’m never sure if people mean it figuratively or literally.
It would really help to know.

ReapersHowler so someones feelings are only valid if they have been screamed and shouted at or attacked?

Lovely transphobia there, have you been physically assaulted over your beliefs? Sexually assaulted? Screamed and shouted at that you're disgusting and vile for how you feel?

Who is doing this?

Top tip, it is men.

Women are indeed sexually assaulted and murdered, murdered at a rate of 2-3 week, by men.

The problem is men.

decomposing

Lots of evidence out there , as you know, shows that the majority of violent crimes are committed by men towards women.

This is why women are questioning the inclusion of transwomen into their spaces. I'm sure most transwomen are lovely, kind and wonderful and I would have no objection sharing a space with them. I can however see the potential for this to be abused by violent, predatory men- who claim that they are women- this has indeed already happened. As I say, this is not all transwomen and I support trans people to live lives free from any hostility or abuse.

This is why women are speaking out. It does not make us transphobic. Women have had to fight for protected spaces for a reason.

Peng, trans people prefer to say they were assigned the wrong gender at birth rather than 'born in the wrong body'. As far as I am aware those who feel they are in the wrong body are those who suffer dysphoria as well.

OP I feel the same as you. The attitudes on this site are really gross sometimes. As for reporting it, people do all the time and they rarely get deleted - only if it's descended into a 'bun fight'.

So, could a lesbian have a trans woman as a lesbian partner, or a gay man be with a trans man?

No, well they can have the relationships but these are straight relationships.

Penis in vagina = straight. I mean, come on - you know this.

MitziMaybe Lovely transphobia there, have you been physically assaulted over your beliefs? Sexually assaulted? Screamed and shouted at that you're disgusting and vile for how you feel?

Are you honestly unaware that women and even little girls are verbally abused and violently and sexually assaulted all the time just for being female. Day and daily all over the world?

If transwomen do indeed believe they are women and know all about what it's like to be a woman, then they shouldn't be surprised by this. They want to be treated as women don't they? That's what it's like.