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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Words fail me... [warning: contains link to distressing story]

257 replies

Beebeezed · 07/06/2019 22:33

metro.co.uk/2019/06/07/baby-died-mum-took-nightclub-drunkenly-fell-asleep-9871288/

OP posts:
CruellaFeinberg · 08/06/2019 08:20

The mother was seen repeatedly throwing and catching her son Darian Tilby with her sister

Can a 4 week old support their own head? I cant remember what age they do that?

I doubt though she was throwing him to hr sister (well I hope) but probably up like you do with bigger/older babies

SpiderPlant38 · 08/06/2019 08:24

We don't know how bad she feels. And "feeling bad" is not punishment enough - or what would ever be the point of the law? This about the child - not her.

And as for everyone else. Yes, others could have intervened, but the current culture is that anyone who dares to question someone's behaviour should be told to fuck off.

EmeraldRubyShark · 08/06/2019 08:41

I assume you think your concern for this cretin makes you a paragon of virtue. It doesn’t. It makes you a coward and a narcissist, so spineless that you can’t bring yourself to condemn this woman’s hideous cruelty, and instead use it as an opportunity to big yourself up at this baby’s expense, virtue signal and demonstrate to others what a forgiving, sweet, empathetic person you are.

I’m with Isabella. I’m normally the first in many situations to say hang on a second, let’s not pile on, let’s have a think about what might have led to this and show some compassion. But this is absolutely, completely beyond that. Because this woman made a series of conscious choices that led to a four week old baby dying in the most awful circumstances. She chose to give birth, in a country where barely anyone has to have a pregnancy they don’t wish to continue with, she chose to keep the child, when even if she’d found out too late for a termination adoptions was an option. She chose to go clubbing a month after having her baby, and chose to take the baby with her instead of finding childcare. She chose to get blind drunk, she chose to throw her child around like a ball, she chose to take two random men back to the caravan where her innocent child sleeps, and to pass out without putting him in a safe place. If he’d needed her during the night she couldn’t have roused to care for him.

I’m sorry but I genuinely don’t think ‘feeling remorse’ for the rest of her life (which is speculation, sounds like she didn’t give a fuck) is payment enough for her actions. A two year sentence is out in one year with good behaviour. By next summer she’s out and free to live her life and do this all over again if she wishes to (unless SS feel they have justification to remove at birth, which they may not if she claims she’s changed).

This is just a series of incidence of horrific parental neglect. It’s become so fashionable to say ‘don’t judge’ we’re forgetting that some people do things that absolutely are worthy of our judgment. We judge paedophiles and sex offenders, that’s apparently fine to judge, but a mother killing her four week old baby? Why is that somehow something nobody should judge?

As for people saying ‘this poor woma was failed by society etc’ grow the fuck up. You don’t have a clue about her background or circumstances. Don’t invent a tragic backstory with failed calls for help when there’s no evidence of that to make yourself feel more virtuous.

stupidis · 08/06/2019 08:42

Shame on every single person who saw a baby being thrown and caught and didn't intervene, let alone in a nightclub

EnjoyItAll · 08/06/2019 08:47

I don’t understand the sentencing of these crimes at all. I know it couldn’t be proven what the actual cause of death is but with child neglect and abuse getting a 2 year sentence it’s no wonder social services are swamped. A lady died the other day after serving just 2 out of 6 years for giving her 2 year old methadone. Horrendous acts but as they ‘aren’t a risk’ to the wider community they are released ready to have more children Angry

Dieu · 08/06/2019 08:48

Stupid trashy bitch. And that poor, poor baby. He never stood a chance with a mother like that. Damn right I am judging away.

EnjoyItAll · 08/06/2019 08:51

If it was the dad lines like ‘The mother has been failed, by her family, by the state, by her circumstance’ would never even be considered. Regardless of her past she made a choice to take a 4 week old to a nightclub and get drunk whilst he was in her care. Past or no past it’s no ones fault but hers

thebear1 · 08/06/2019 08:52

She may feel guilt and it may haunt her but that is not a given. Some people do horrible things and worry more about themselves. We don't know which camp this woman falls into.

FrancisCrawford · 08/06/2019 08:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

XXVaginaAndAUterus · 08/06/2019 08:59

I do feel wonder what on earth her circumstances are that led to her behaving like that; it's just so extremely outside of normal. I'm not looking to excuse her actions, I just wonder what led to them. Was it just irresponsible behaviour with no other contributing factors? Does she have poor mental health, or had a spectacularly fucked up, upbringing? We may never know. None of it excuses her actions, but I wonder if something goes part way to explaining them.

youarenotkiddingme · 08/06/2019 09:04

Totally agree you wonder about her state of mind to make the type of decisions she did.

Caravan with 4 week old.
Taking them out 'clubbing'
Throwing and catching the baby
Returning with stranger men.

The falling asleep and rolling on the baby seems to be an extremely tragic end to a night long catalogue of dangerous behaviour.

chocolategivesmehives · 08/06/2019 09:19

Emeraldrubyshark has it exactly. We should judge, and harshly. Every time someone says ‘We shouldn’t judge’ it gives carte blanche to anyone who wants to behave badly.

Yes, others could have stopped her, but the fault lies with this awful woman.

People need to be pulled up for stupid, nasty behaviour, not excused. It needs to be totally unacceptable to act in such a manner. There is NO excuse.

Fluffycloudland77 · 08/06/2019 09:19

I’ve lived in Wales, 30 years behind the rest of the uk. I’m not surprised at all.

ginghamtablecloths · 08/06/2019 09:24

Of course we are going to judge. Who in their right mind thinks that a nightclub is a suitable place for a baby? Why were they allowed in? This poor kid wouldn't have had a very good childhood with a mother who behaves like this. OK, you don't have to be a genius to bring up children but at least a little common sense is required. Hopefully this silly woman will acquire some in future.

FookMeFookYou · 08/06/2019 09:25

There are so many people involved who are just as guilty of failing this child as far as I'm concerned, but the ultimate responsibility lies with that poor excuse of a human being never mind 'mother'.

Only 2 years because it might have been SIDS, not fucking likely when the scummy little lush was laying all over her child.

Her and the sister were seen throwing the child around - WTF KIND OF WORLD ARE WE LIVING IN WHEN NO-ONE STEPS
IN AngryAngryAngry

She needs to be sterilised, as does the sister. People like this should not be allowed to have or be near children.

Disgusted.

gamerwidow · 08/06/2019 09:33

Everyone to pile on here and judge this woman?
I’m normally very laid back about new mothers going out for the night, I don’t think being a mum means you give up everything else but even I think what this woman did was terrible.
What the hell was everyone thinking here. The mum and the sister for putting the baby at such terrible risk for the sake of a night out. The nightclub owner for letting the baby in the club. The other clubbers and staff for watching the mum throw a tiny baby about and saying anything. The two men for going back for sex with a tiny baby in tow.
That poor little mite let down by every adult he met that night.

gamerwidow · 08/06/2019 09:35

The only mitigation would be if the mother had postpartum psychosis in which case both her and her child were horribly failed by everyone else that night. I don’t think this was offered as a defence though?

WorraLiberty · 08/06/2019 09:35

Of course we are going to judge. Who in their right mind thinks that a nightclub is a suitable place for a baby? Why were they allowed in?

It was actually the club at the caravan site, so I expect lots of families would have been there.

Poor reporting really.

NoSauce · 08/06/2019 09:35

Everyone to pile on here and judge this woman?

Strange that you think posted wouldn’t judge her after what she did? People have to pay for their actions and if it means she spends time in prison then so be it. A newborn baby lost his life due the reckless and selfish behaviour of his so called mother.

NoSauce · 08/06/2019 09:35

Posters not posted

gamerwidow · 08/06/2019 09:37

WorraLiberty
Yes that makes more sense, families would not be unusual at this venue.

Usuallytootiredbuthappyanyway · 08/06/2019 09:41

My nephew is 4 weeks old and the thought of him being thrown around is sickening on its own. That poor, helpless soul.

CitadelsofScience · 08/06/2019 09:43

For the rest of her life that woman will be haunted by what she's done, nothing anyone says or does can make her feel worse, so let's just try to have a heart.

But she might not be, she might not give a shit about what she's done. If she thought it acceptable to take a newborn in to a very chaotic environment, drink copious amounts of alcohol, presumably not be in a fit state to feed on demand, throw a baby around(that can't even support its own head) like a ball then I highly doubt she's going to be the kind of human being that feels truly remorseful and is haunted by guilt for the rest of her life.

ShirleyPhallus · 08/06/2019 09:45

Strange that you think posted wouldn’t judge her after what she did?

Hmm I think posters would absolutely judge her for what she did and pretty much all come to the same conclusion so therefore this thread is entirely pointless

ReanimatedSGB · 08/06/2019 10:35

I suppose threads like this are just an opportunity for people to have a good wank about how exemplary their own behaviour is, in comparison.