AIBU to be a shocked at a parent leaving their 4 month old home alone for 10 minutes

[NotMyUsualNameNoSiree]

I overheard a conversation at school the other day, a mum was telling another mum how she left her young DD (4mo) at home while she picked up her DS (aged 5 or 6) from school.

I believe she lives around the corner and across the road from school, maybe 1 or 2 minutes walk. But pick-up would probably take 10 minutes in total to get the kid, get him ready, leave school premises and get home.

Of course I rationally know that no harm is likely to come to a 4mo left alone for ten minutes. But even if it's very very unlikely that anything bad would happen (to the baby, or the mum, or the older kid), it still gives me the chills to think about it.

Instinctively I want to say something, whether to her or the school. But I don't know if I'm being over cautious.

Point being, if it were a matter for the parent’s judgment, it would be an adequate defence to say, “I thought it was fine. I risk assessed.” It isn’t. The judgment of police and SS overrides yours.

Given that the final quote in the article- 'is that supposed to be a crime' - was from a judge I woukd say it doesn't really clarify the issue

Hercule, that newspaper article does not really support your case. Of all the arrests only 19 were charged and these were likely to be cases of serious neglect. The one case cited which is quite similar to the example given was dismissed at appeal. I would like to see an example of a prosecution for a child being left safely for 10 minutes in their cot.

vdbfamily

It doesn’t say which cases. The point is you would definitely be liable to be charged if something happened to your baby when you had left them alone. Perhaps they would go easy on you, perhaps not.

Vulpine

Nothing happened to that child. I am talking about what would happen if you left your child alone and they burnt to death.

But it is NOT your judgment call. It’s theirs.

that article absolutely doesn't show any example of "People prosecuted in similar circumstances"

It does. Circumstances of leaving children at home alone. You can try to differentiate this all you want. If your child burnt alive because you had left the house, this law would apply.

Quote from the NSPCC in your linked article states “it is never acceptable to leave a baby or small child alone for any length of time”

Note that it doesn’t say “you should never leave them alone”.

It also clearly shows the decision comes down to them being at risk. If as a parent you believe they’re not at risk by being left safely sleeping in their cot for 10 minutes without a parent being in the room that’s a decision for the parent not some random mum in the playground half over hearing a conversation.

Article also highlights the inconsistency in the guidelines that you keep quoting. An 8 year old can go to the park on their own, they can go swimming on their own but they can’t stay at home on their own. As a parent I know which of those situations I would assess as being least risky.

herculepoirot2

if you cannot understand the difference between leaving a baby to pick up a child across the street, and leaving children for weeks to holiday in Australia, you are not fit to be a parent on any level.

Your talk and sarcasm about dead babies are just as unacceptable today as they were yesterday, even if you have cut down the sarcasm, and I will ignore you from now but you are talking so much nonsense it's hard not to point out where you do. Again.

Dorsetdays

For any length of time, not for any length of time. The law is about leaving them in the house alone, not being away from them within the house.

I knew someone who did that.
She had really bad PND. Baby hadn't been sleeping and she was exhausted. Just got baby in the cot, and looked at the clock, thought "oh dear time to get dd" and picked up her keys and went.
Didn't really think about it until someone said to her "oh, where's baby?" and she said "Asleep in the cot at home. I didn't want to disturb her". She saw the other person's face look horrified, and it was only that point that she registered that she'd left them home alone.

She said she'd never dashed home so quickly, and never did that again. It also was the catalyst for her going to get help for her PND, which, up to that point, she'd been in denial about.

There is no law on this issue Hercule so not sure why you keep saying that. There are only guidelines and those are based on a parents own judgement of risk.

I just Googled dangers of school run and there were literally hundreds of examples of accidents occuring on school runs and an article on how stressed parents are and how many are distracted and have car crashes etc etc, and yet people are still saying that being at home, asleep in your cot, is more dangerous! It is not rational but has become a thing that people do not think to question or dare to. I absolutely think we should be questioning why UK and US are so different to rest of world on this. When we get to the stage of 10 year olds who have never been to a shop alone or not allowed out to the park with friends then in my opinion, we are not keeping them safe but actually causing them harm. I know this is a different scenario but comes from the same mindset of what if this or what if that. Children need to learn to live with and manage risk

NSPCC site I just looked at clearly says there is no law about this but that it is about knowingly putting your child at risk that would get you into trouble. I would consider in this circumstance that the school run would be higher risk but that the further away you get from home and the longer you are gone for start to turn the balance of risk towards being more risky to be home alone. I think that unless you have lived a stone's throw from a school or nursery it is hard to imagine this scenario in real life

...and yet people think nothing of putting babies in cars daily.

Risk assessment really should be taught in schools.

Dorsetdays

There absolutely is a law. It is illegal to put a child at risk by leaving them alone. What “at risk” means is left to the parent’s discretion in the first instance, but they are expected to exercise due caution. If they don’t, the police and SS have the last word, not them.

Anyway, I am leaving this thread because I am starting to get annoyed with its sheer bullheaded stupidity. As a final word to any new mums reading this: please don’t pay any attention to these people. They are wrong.

from someone like herculepoirot2 who supported or joined sarcasm about baby dying of SIDS or burning alive, posters will know who to ignore

let alone the fact that they invent rules and regulations to support their own very wrong views.

I think to be fair to Hercules and to return to original OP, a parent leaving a child at home COULD be an indicator of neglect .It would be something that as another parent who does not know that family well, you would have no idea if they were on the SS radar already. If you are genuinely concerned about the situation, the safest thing would be just to mention it to the school safeguarding lead. If there are absolutely no other concerns then it is unlikely to go anywhere but if there are other flags then it might become relevant. If anyone had challenged me I feel I would have been able to justify that it had been a thought through decision with consideration of all risks. What I find objectionable is the herd mentality that refuses to acknowledge that being out of earshot of your child for 10 minutes is the same risk whether you are in a distant room, garden or across the road and that 10 minutes is unlikely to pose any risk to your child if they are well, asleep, and unable to get out of their cot.

the herd mentality that refuses to acknowledge that being out of earshot of your child for 10 minutes is the same risk whether you are in a distant room, garden or across the road

if you are out of earshot, what actual difference does it really make?
Across the road chatting with a neighbour, at the bottom of the garden with your back to the house, or around the corner? What is the real difference there?

Anyway, I am leaving this thread because I am starting to get annoyed with its sheer bullheaded stupidity. As a final word to any new mums reading this: please don’t pay any attention to these people. They are wrong.

Similar to why I left last night, along with the bike dead baby and convenience comment made by @MrMakersFartyParty. You've also unrated an enormous amount of time in this post @herculepoirot2.

Vile not bike! And bold fail.

Well I don't think I'm wrong, despite the links posted. But that's OK. I'll continue to parent according to my morals, assessment of risk etc and accept the consequences of those assessments, be they judgement from others, injury to my child or legal sanctions. Others must do the same. If they feel that this situation (or other similar) should be reported then they should definitely do that. Just don't be astonished when social services don't instantly swoop in and remove a well-cared baby from its loving family. Just because you might think something is horrific doesn't mean it is. There's a lot of emotive language on this thread which to my mind doesn't suggest a very rational, objective view. However, we live in a free country and sharing of differing views on this point is interesting.

To clarify for the new parents hercule is apparently taking to, there is NO law which says you cannot leave a child alone for 10 minutes. Nobody should be made to feel like they’re a bad parent because they don’t permanently have their DC strapped to their chests, take them to the toilet whenever they go themselves or co sleep etc.

And in any case just because someone is a new parent doesn’t mean they need to be patronised by other parents assuming they have no common sense when it comes to their baby.

In the OPs circumstances there was so little evidence pointing to any real concern that the advice being given was to perhaps keep an eye out. If any further repeat or additional concerns then report it but advising someone to dash straight to SS over this is really just hysterics.

SS are swamped with genuine cases and there are children out there sadly who are really in need of that support, so by just taking a minute to think through the issue it could really impact on that.