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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be a shocked at a parent leaving their 4 month old home alone for 10 minutes

999 replies

NotMyUsualNameNoSiree · 06/06/2019 12:55

I overheard a conversation at school the other day, a mum was telling another mum how she left her young DD (4mo) at home while she picked up her DS (aged 5 or 6) from school.

I believe she lives around the corner and across the road from school, maybe 1 or 2 minutes walk. But pick-up would probably take 10 minutes in total to get the kid, get him ready, leave school premises and get home.

Of course I rationally know that no harm is likely to come to a 4mo left alone for ten minutes. But even if it's very very unlikely that anything bad would happen (to the baby, or the mum, or the older kid), it still gives me the chills to think about it.

Instinctively I want to say something, whether to her or the school. But I don't know if I'm being over cautious.

OP posts:
vdbfamily · 08/06/2019 17:22

The last time we had a post along these lines there was a very interesting link to a study as to why Westerners tend to think this is very wrong but are unable to articulate what the risk actually is. They are also unable to rationalise that if you are just looking at risk, then it is often genuinely more risky to take your child with you than leave them at home. Most people on the thread refused to read the link because they were not even prepared to look at a study that suggested we might be overly judgemental with no factual reason to be so.
I think there are 4 groups of people in this debate.

  1. Those who sit their child in a bumbo in front of them whilst they wee for fear of all the awful things that might happen if they are not in full view 24/7
  2. Those who think it would probably be okay to be out of earshot for up to 10 minutes but would never do so for fear of being judged by the types of people who frequent these threads on MN
  3. Those who are able to risk assess of a situation by situation basis and actually decide what is the safest option and do not give a monkeys what others might say because they could justify their actions should they need to
  4. Those who care more for their own needs than their children and genuinely neglect them on a regular basis and probably already known to SS

For those saying that people commenting from different countries are not relevant.....of course they are relevant. If different countries have a different attitude and yet the statistics show there is no increase in young children coming to harm as a result, and in fact their kids are happier, more independent, healthier etc then we absolutely should be looking into why we are so paranoid in this country!!

herculepoirot2 · 08/06/2019 17:23

YOU maybe didn't, but others posters are insistent that any child left at home for a couple of minutes has unsuitable parents who need to be reported.

Unsuitable parents - your words, not mine. Leaving your child at home alone is definitely a concern.

herculepoirot2 · 08/06/2019 17:25

vdbfamily

What happens in other countries isn’t relevant to this discussion. In this country we have guidelines that police, HV, SS refer to, and they are very clear that it is never okay to leave a baby or toddler alone. So given those guidelines, I would be concerned about someone who did. Being concerned, I would report it.

The rest is irrelevant.

Vulpine · 08/06/2019 17:26

Absolutely vdb - there's alot of hysteria on this thread

herculepoirot2 · 08/06/2019 17:27

because they could justify their actions should they need to

And no, they couldn’t. They could make excuses, but nobody in a position of authority would tell them it was fine because they “were able to risk assess”. They would tell them to stop doing it.

JacquesHammer · 08/06/2019 17:37

What I find most interesting about the debate is that those who said they would leave their children alone have attempted to justify it (maybe to themselves?) by comparing it to other situations.

Actually, I don’t really have an issue with people doing it if they’ve made a competent assessment. But why not just say “I did it because it was easy and convenient”?

vdbfamily · 08/06/2019 17:37

A recent case where a dad was prosecuted for leaving a child in a car whilst he nipped into a shop was challenged and the decision overturned. I would be really interested if anyone can link to a case where someone was actually proscecuted for the equivalent of this. I think it would be pretty easy to evidence with statistical back up that a 4 month old is safer in their cot for 10 minutes than being on the school run with his mum when lots of mad parents park in stupid places and lots of non parents drive too fast. I have done this as I also lived 2 minutes from our pre-school and had 3 pre-schoolers for one year. It would genuinely have been far more dangerous to take the baby and toddler over the busy road and return with all 3 of them in tow when they could be safely asleep at home. I would always be last to collect so no hanging around and if either kid was awake I would take them with me and I would check there was nothing switched on that could catch light etc.
I am also shock horror a health professional of 30 years experience who has to risk assess on a daily basis. Shoot me now!

JacquesHammer · 08/06/2019 17:38

I’m presuming “easy” and “convenient” are the reasons one would leave a baby alone.

Which then comes down to what type of baby/parenting style you have. DD was easy to transport so it was never an issue!

cherrryontop · 08/06/2019 17:40

You can't seriously suggest that it's safer to leave the kids at home alone because it's statistically safer than crossing the road with them all!

Jesus Christ the world has gone mad.

herculepoirot2 · 08/06/2019 17:42

vdbfamily

And as a HCP, if someone disclosed that they were leaving their baby alone at home to do X, Y, Z, what should you do?

vdbfamily · 08/06/2019 17:42

Jacques....it is partly about convenience but for me, when I did it was mostly about the need for my child to have a decent lunchtime nap and not being awoken to drag them 2 minutes down the road and back again. Mine all fairly consistantly slept for 2.5 hours at lunchtime and only failed to do that if unwell. If unwell I would probably ask someone else to drop my oldest home or may have kept her at home to start with. There was also a question of safety and it was a horrible main road where a few years later my kids were nearly killed whilst crossing at the pedestrian crossing.

JacquesHammer · 08/06/2019 17:45

vdbfamily

See that’s exactly my point - parenting style and baby type!

Fyette · 08/06/2019 17:46

Ease and convenience could be a reason, but I think in the scenario OP described it more likely stemmed from genuinely wanting to do the right thing for the child. In this case, not wanting to wake an exhausted and worn out baby who has just managed to let itself be settled, and then expose it to more stimuli (that's how I interpret what the mum said to the other mum).

cushioncovers · 08/06/2019 17:49

I moved both my newborns into their own room when they were roughly four weeks old they were in the box room next to me. So about four feet away. Runs away from thread and won't be back.

vdbfamily · 08/06/2019 17:49

Hercule, it would very much depend on the situation and I would think if it was the situation described here then no action needed. If the child was old enough to get out of the cot then a duifferent situation. If the school was 10 minutes away, again different. If the family are smokers or have open fires, different. If the kids are left lose and not in cot then more risky again.
I genuinely cannot see an argument for it being safer to take a 4 m on school run than leave them in a cot for 10 minutes and no-one has been able to rationalise this to me.
You do know that Social workers spend much of their time looking out for kids being beaten, sexually abused, not fed, given drugs for fun, parents leaving them at home for hours whilst they go out to score etc.
There is genuinely no difference to spending 10 minutes hanging the washing out, chatting to neighbour over back fence, gardening , sitting on toilet etc.

MorondelaFrontera · 08/06/2019 17:50

those who said they would leave their children alone have attempted to justify it (maybe to themselves?) by comparing it to other situations.

my nearest school is more than 2 minutes walk away, so I didn't leave my babies, but I wouldn't report the mother because I don't believe it is a cause of concern at all. How else than comparing to other situations could I judge? Issue is not hearing the child? Well, that's quite normal for most parent for a few minutes is one of them.

Others posters have been unable to articulate or clarify how they handle different situation, so their position are really weak.

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 17:52

“I moved both my newborns into their own room when they were roughly four weeks old they were in the box room next to me. So about four feet away”

Now that is significantly more irresponsible and risky than leaving a 4 month old in his cot for 10 minutes. Bizarre, this risk assessment business, isn’t it?

herculepoirot2 · 08/06/2019 17:52

Hercule, it would very much depend on the situation and I would think if it was the situation described here then no action needed

Then I hope you would enjoy the attention of a Serious Case Review when it turned out others made the same - ridiculous - judgement and actually the child was being left alone frequently, and on one of those occasions came to harm.

JacquesHammer · 08/06/2019 17:55

Issue is not hearing the child?

The issue for me would be however much you say “oh it’s only 10 minutes” you can never guarantee that. THAT for me is why it’s not worth the risk.

MorondelaFrontera · 08/06/2019 18:02

but it's not 10 minutes AWAY, it's 1 or 2 minutes at most.
Can't see the issue.

And there's nothing irresponsible in putting your babies in another room when you feel the time is right. Mine went between 3 and 2 months old, and everybody slept better. It's none of anyone's business really.

Putting them in a shed at the bottom of the garden, that, on the other hand would be a "concern" Hmm

vdbfamily · 08/06/2019 18:03

Having pondered Hercules last comment I am now unsure what I would do. She is right that something like this might be a sign that there is further neglect going on (but equally might not be)
From that point of view it might be worth mentioning it to school from a safeguarding viewpoint just so that if there are other 'flags' that might suggest neglect then it will add to the picture.
I guess I read these threads and react to the judginess of people who know nothing about other peoples lives but at the same time, cannot ignore the fact that when some people leave their children unsupervised at home it can be for totally selfish reasons and for considerable lengths of time which wou,d be endangering

somuchinfo · 08/06/2019 18:05

Absolutely not! Never leave a baby or a child alone for ten minutes. Any minutes. I'm horrified that someone would do this.

JacquesHammer · 08/06/2019 18:07

but it's not 10 minutes AWAY, it's 1 or 2 minutes at most

Well the OP said it was 10 mins so I’m working on that basis...

MorondelaFrontera · 08/06/2019 18:07

You can get hysterical about anything though

Mother nicely dressed, full make-up, lovely hair: neglect baby whilst gets ready, clearly not copying.
Mother a mess, hasn't showered and put 1st clothes she could find, baby wearing ill matching clownish outfit: baby neglected because PND and mother not copying.

I mean, you could find something to judge in ANYTHING. It's quite dangerous to be so judgemental

MorondelaFrontera · 08/06/2019 18:10

maybe 1 or 2 minutes walk.
is the exact quote from the OP...