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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?

712 replies

BinkyBaa · 04/06/2019 02:51

Just that really. I don't mean to be goady I've just noticed that when it comes up here, people seem more against it than other social circles I'm familiar with. I think I'm a bit out of the loop as to what the issue is.

OP posts:
CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 11:36

you're alright giving away men's spaces though?

Are you new to this?

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 11:39

Just seems hypocritical that's all.
Segregate the spaces! Do what the duck you like with men's spaces though!

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 11:40

@LimeKiwi-can your share your views on women’s sport, rape with a penis being reported as a female crime and women sharing spaces in a rape crisis centre with male bodied people?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/06/2019 11:42

what the duck

To ask why aibu is so anti-trans?
BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 11:44

Just seems hypocritical that's all.
Segregate the spaces! Do what the duck you like with men's spaces though!

if anyone’s going to have to share their space, it should be the people who aren’t at physical or psychological thread. And anyway, i’m In favour of “widening the bandwidth of masculinity”. The bandwidth of femininity is pretty wide already.

Fairenuff · 08/06/2019 11:45

Again, it's been said for year and years. It's not up to women to sort out things for men.

If they have a problem with Women & Unisex they can say so and they can get off their arses and campaign themselves. At the moment none of this affects men and they are failing to support women. Why should women do their work for them too?

Oh yeah, it's that old misogyny again.

LimeKiwi · 08/06/2019 11:50

Grin Gotta love autocorrect, my phone obviously doesn't approve of swearing lol

Ereshkigal · 08/06/2019 12:11

explicitly saying that the Equality Act 2010 would be adhered to with regards to transwomen accessing the ponds

Er, no. They, and you misunderstand the law. There is no imperative for male people to access women's spaces in the Equality Act.

over50andfab · 08/06/2019 12:12

As far as I’m aware, we’ve never had a man turn up and say, ‘Today I’m a woman and want to swim in the women’s pond.’ The only problems to date have been the so-called gender-critical feminist Man Friday protestors at the men’s pond,” Lord said."

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages thanks for that and also the link. It helps answer what I asked further upthread. Up to now, I’d read that transwomen had actually already been using the women’s pond for years with no issues.

It seems that the protesters have caused more of an issue than there actually was. Of course this remains to be seen whether issues arise going forward.

sackrifice · 08/06/2019 12:21

Up to now, I’d read that transwomen had actually already been using the women’s pond for years with no issues

Who asked the women using the pond if they had issues?

When they were asked, the City of London ignored all the responses from people who do have issues.

Outofinspiration · 08/06/2019 12:26

Up to now, I’d read that transwomen had actually already been using the women’s pond for years with no issues.

Obviously there are 'issues' as women are objecting to it.

I agree that the manipulation of the Equality Act in all of this is infuriating. Sex is a protected characteristic within the EA, therefore allowing males into sex segregated spaces in breaking the act. As I understand it anyway.

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 12:29

You know, @kiwikime- i’m starting to think you don’t actually have any thoughts on the difficult questions.

Outofinspiration · 08/06/2019 12:32

i’m starting to think you don’t actually have any thoughts on the difficult questions.

You're only just starting to think that?!

IlluminatiConfirmed · 08/06/2019 12:40

BinkyBaa, I fully agree. I find anti-trans views on mumsnet very off-putting. It's dressed as part of the movement for women's rights but it's really not. It's based on fears of the unknown and it's not kind. I work in a university and we work hard to improve equality and inclusion. We don't want anyone to feel that they have to hide who they really are or be disadvantaged in any way as a result of this. I personally know three trans people who all have wonderful personalities, are high achievers in their fields and have high moral standards. I care deeply about their well-being.

We still have some female toilets in our university, but most toilets are either already refurbished into gender neutral toilets or there are plans to do this in the near future. I've never heard any objections to this from anybody, I think it's the right thing to do.

Gender in sport is a complex issue because professional sport treats gender in a strictly binary way. Naturally occurring biological differences in testosterone levels are disqualifying too (see Dutee Chand, Caster Semenya). How is it fair to ask biological women to take hormone-suppressing drugs or have surgery in order to compete? We should come up with a better system for professional sport not blame trans people for what is a complex issue in the first place.

over50andfab · 08/06/2019 12:41

Obviously there are 'issues' as women are objecting to it.

Yes, there were recent objections, but the information I’ve been trying to find is have there been any issues with transwomen using the ponds before these recent protests? Any info on inappropriate behaviour etc?

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 12:47

“I personally know three trans people who all have wonderful personalities, are high achievers in their fields and have high moral standards. I care deeply about their well-being.”
I’m sure you do. But what has any of that got to do with anything?

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 08/06/2019 12:47

" I personally know three trans people who all have wonderful personalities, are high achievers in their fields and have high moral standards. I care deeply about their well-being."

I know plenty of men that fit into this category for me. Doesn't mean I want to compete against them in sport or share a changing room with them.

Just because no one speaks up about gender neutral toilets doesn't mean there are no objections. People are scared to be labelled a bigot or a terf, especially in universities.

The lack of free speech in such institutions is astounding.

Ereshkigal · 08/06/2019 12:51

It seems that the protesters have caused more of an issue than there actually was. Of course this remains to be seen whether issues arise going forward.

Yes, personally I believe every word misogynistic anti woman activists say.

Outofinspiration · 08/06/2019 12:52

I've never heard any objections to this from anybody, I think it's the right thing to do.

Well, given that anyone who dares to speak out on this issue is immediately branded a TERF and is threatened with report to their employers/political party/University and in come cases violence, I'm not bloody surprised no one has objected to it!

Butchyrestingface · 08/06/2019 12:54

I've never heard any objections to this from anybody, I think it's the right thing to do.

Does your university create a safe environment for students or staff with dissenting views to raise these?

I’m not sure that I would be comfortable raising any concerns with a person who seems to think the fact that they happen to know three nice transpeople is in any way relevant to the debate around sex segregated spaces. Confused

As for this:

We still have some female toilets in our university, but most toilets are either already refurbished into gender neutral toilets or there are plans to do this in the near future.

Are the “female” toilets open to transmen and trans women? Because otherwise, with only two options, transpeople would all be required to use either the male or gender neutral toilets, which sounds far from safe for them.

BertrandRussell · 08/06/2019 12:55

“Any info on inappropriate behaviour etc”

There doesn’t have to have been any inappropriate behaviour. It’s OK for women just to not want something-because they don’t.

over50andfab · 08/06/2019 13:01

I have a DD currently at uni. I’d say going there has made her extremely outspoken and opinionated as has it her friends there and at other unis. She and her friends have no issue with gender neutral toilets or trans people in general there. I do wonder sometimes if the younger ones see the whole trans debate as not as big an issue as the older ones. Has anyone else asked their DC what their views are?

IAmAlwaysLikeThis · 08/06/2019 13:03

over50 yes because at that age people want to be seen as open minded and accepting. Women especially do not want to be seen as horrible or exclusionary.

Beyond that, once you have your own kids, a LOT changes in terms of attitudes to safe guarding etc

over50andfab · 08/06/2019 13:03

“There doesn’t have to have been any inappropriate behaviour. It’s OK for women just to not want something-because they don’t.”

But that is speaking for all women surely? I wonder if they’ve ever tried some sort of anonymous poll to try to find out

over50andfab · 08/06/2019 13:04

Beyond that, once you have your own kids, a LOT changes in terms of attitudes to safe guarding etc

Totally agree, but it’s also a case of trying to have a balanced view