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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

BIL taken £30k withdrew money as mum was dying

174 replies

Apolloboy · 02/06/2019 18:38

MIL admitted to hospital palliative care & died. My alcoholic BIL withdrew via bank transfer to his account £30k from her account just before she passed. He says that she agreed this! Whilst she WAS coherent I don’t believe that...I don’t believe she would favour him... he was caught stealing £18k from her before via bank transfers & at her request we helped her change her accounts... she was very generous to her 3 dgc ( two of his & one ours). Her will reads half each to both sons.
She & I had many conversations regarding how she wanted her grandchildren to use her inheritance on property ladder/university fees.
He says it’s his word against ours & nothing we can do as she was ALIVE at the time he took it. Callous & causing added pain... trying hard to organise celebration of her life but his behaviour is causing chaos.
What can we do legally?

OP posts:

FizzyGreenWater · 03/06/2019 13:24

OP so so so well done.

Think of it this way - this is very likely to be the first step to YOU - as in your family and MIL's legacy - being able to help his partner, and therefore MIL's grandchildren, to be freed from his influence and being dragged down into poverty and dysfunction.

He won't be holding anyone to ransom after this. His partner has shown she's not afraid to dob him in for his horrible actions. She's not afraid to ask for help. And you aren't afraid to give her that help.

Push to look for a way for that cash to go to his children not him. And make it clear to him that his days of holding everyone to ransom are numbered.

What a bastard.

FizzyGreenWater · 03/06/2019 13:26

He'll take what he can get. And that share, once it goes to him, his family and sons won't see a penny of it.

Scare the bejesus out of him any way you can and I'd focus on helping his partner get shot of him financially, if nothing else. Putting the house in just her name would be a good first step.

Gth1234 · 03/06/2019 13:26

@OP.

I expect you are very pleased to have got such a positive response. Hopefully the b-I-l will acquiesce with your solicitor's suggestions - he ought to pay the solicitor's legal bill as well.

It must have been a big step to take - it's not the sort of thing you want to do while you are mourning the loss of your mother.

Good luck.

rattusrattus20 · 03/06/2019 13:29

sounds like OP did a really good job.

in that position I'd have let it be but then severed all ties.

Alsohuman · 03/06/2019 13:31

I think the solicitor has done a bit more than suggest and left bil with very little choice!

boobirdblue · 03/06/2019 13:34

It's fraud at best and if not it's theft. Disgraceful and shameful behaviour.

I'm sorry for your loss

PeoniesarePink · 03/06/2019 13:35

When my beloved Nan passed away, my Mum "let" my uncle take over arranging the funeral etc, and he along with his wife cleared out Nan's belongings taking around £5k in cash that my Nan refused to put in the bank, along with cashing in an insurance policy in my Mum's name.

Mum let it all go as Nan wouldn't have wanted a row, but she now bitterly regrets that and wishes she'd reported them both for fraud and theft.

You've completely done the right thing OP, and I'm really sorry for your loss

over50andfab · 03/06/2019 13:36

Great update OP - real,y pleased you saw a solicitor first about this, and great work from your BIL’s partner.

Just to say, clothing, house contents etc would probably not be worth a lot except for high value items like jewellery (good that you also have pawn tickets and can hopefully get back any that has sentimental value? When we had my DM’s things properly valued for probate clothing wasn’t even considered and, say, a cupboard full of crystal was valued at

Whosorrynow · 03/06/2019 13:38

Brother-in-law by the sounds of him probably has other reasons not to want the police paying close attention to him....
He will have done lots of other shady things

Original poster

Apolloboy · 03/06/2019 13:58

@whosorrynow...EXACTLY
@over50andfab... solicitor says if we have photo of items & even a buy it now price off of eBay that WILL be taken as proof. Items clothing think Harvey Nicks handbags & shoes Bally YSL etc & we photographed my MIL ... ALL the time. China used at every family occasion & in glazed cupboards in house. Jewellery we have receipts for & no item but we have the pawn ticket (although now expired & jewellery long gone but the tickets are in BIL name.. idiot) And whilst he is under the threat of thinking... unless he acquiesces to solicitors demands... his share is under threat of police intrusion or worse for him it’s all being withheld he will HOPEFULLY agree to having a little amount returned for the greater amount unlocked... as I type I’m photocopying lists on eBay, waiting for funeral directors to return call & making spaghetti Bol for ALL of us...BIL partner & kids included for dinner after school... im a great wife today, im definitely not serene or calm like my lovely MIL but at least I haven’t stabbed the fucker...MIL would be proud...

OP posts:

justasking111 · 03/06/2019 14:12

So relieved you are now safe OP. Whatever happens as long as you take solicitors advice do what you can to catalogue missing stuff and take care of your family legally, you can move forward. You have made every effort re HMRC who will be reasonable, they see this stuff all the time.

My friends DH fiddled HMRC and her leaving huge debts, she went to see them on her uppers, said they were so kind when she admitted she had no idea where the money had gone, he had remortgaged the house without her knowledge etc. it was such a mess.

RedHelenB · 03/06/2019 15:03

I'm not so sure that the solicitor can bypass him if a will has been left dividing it between mil children.

tearinmybeer · 03/06/2019 15:55

Hell, I'm proud of you too. It's great that you can take this situation and keep things together. I'd be falling apart

For me, your husband has lost his mother and his own brother is making it so that he (and you) have to focus on HIM, not even getting a chance to stop and mourn your loss. Such extreme selfishness.

My heart goes out to all addicts, but the addiction is a reason, not an excuse.

By taking this into your hands, being open-minded, and helping out so much, I hope you realise how much you're doing for the entire family, especially your husband, at a fragile time.

MerdedeBrexit · 03/06/2019 16:39

If I were your husband's solicitor, I wouldn't give the BIL the £15K he owes the estate at all as his share of the inheritance to give to his brother, I would give it directly to your husband as part of his total share of the estate. Wouldn't trust your BIL as far as I could throw him on that.

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 03/06/2019 16:49

I'm not so sure that the solicitor can bypass him if a will has been left dividing it between mil children.

I'm guessing that the solicitor is going to treat the pre-death transfers of assets out of the estate, including cash and valuables, as loans. That's more face-saving for the son than regarding them as downright theft, which is probably more accurate. So he now owes them (or their value) back to the estate. If he won't give them back before distribution of the estate then they can easily be accounted for by adjusting the amount be receives.

I'd agree that the executors can't just give his share to his children, unless the will allows for that.

Canone · 03/06/2019 18:58

Yes! Well done OP and family. I really hope there’s a way to get his share given straight to his children, otherwise they’ll see none of it.

Whosorrynow · 03/06/2019 21:55

I would watch him after this though, he will want some revenge for the fact that you got the better of him

expat101 · 04/06/2019 01:18

My SIL was withdrawing cash via ATM machines for a month after my MIL died. Due to privacy restrictions, we could never find out exactly how much she took. Her Solicitors who were also acting for MIL"s estate, wanted our solicitor to declare how we ''knew''. He requested the bank statements which have never been sent.

We were quoted a cost to get it before Court which was an extraordinary nearly 6 figure amount. Each time our solicitor sent a letter, MIL's estate would be charged a fee by her Solicitors.

So as horrible as this situation is, it sounds to me like everyone is looking out for your MIL's and Hubby's interests. Well done. xx

Weenurse · 04/06/2019 08:43

Well done, I hope he sees reason, but he may not.
Good luck.

SunniDay · 04/06/2019 21:19

Hi OP,
If your solicitor struggles to bypass BIL one thing you could consider is if BIL and his partner have a joint account that it will be paid into get his partner to have an account of her own set up ready so that when the money goes in (after she has been notified it will be) she can immediately transfer it to her own account. Might be a bit grey legally but either person can draw on a joint account so not outright illegal. She can then use it for the good of the whole family and ensure it is not spent on your BIL killing himself with alcohol.

RedHelenB · 05/06/2019 15:11

But the money is the BILs. Not his children's or his wife. Yes I agree he should see it as family money but it certainly isn't up to his wife to take it without so much as a discussion. If money was to be left to the grandchildren then there would be a will stating that.

contentedsoul · 05/06/2019 23:06

What a wanker!
As others say, I'd contact the police.
He sounds charming

DizzySue · 05/06/2019 23:17

Surely this is absolute rock bottom...stealing from your DM on her deathbed, what a despicable human being. My heart goes out to you and your DH having to deal with this betrayal on top of the grief of losing your MIL.

Hopefully when all this is resolved you can cut ties completely with him and never speak to him again.

Newmum918 · 05/06/2019 23:20

Is there a will and is there an executor? Inheritance tax papers need to be filled out to confirm the value of the estate and the executor or next of kin need to apply for probate (you can say a will hasn’t been left on this). Without probate you cannot legally take funds from the estate for yourself. To transfer money from your mothers account he most likely would have also needed power of Atterny for it to be legal!

Anything 7 years prior to death will will be part of the estate and needs to be accounted for unless under 2k a year per individual I believe! Depending on the total estate value inheritance tax will need to be paid.

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