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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

BIL taken £30k withdrew money as mum was dying

174 replies

Apolloboy · 02/06/2019 18:38

MIL admitted to hospital palliative care & died. My alcoholic BIL withdrew via bank transfer to his account £30k from her account just before she passed. He says that she agreed this! Whilst she WAS coherent I don’t believe that...I don’t believe she would favour him... he was caught stealing £18k from her before via bank transfers & at her request we helped her change her accounts... she was very generous to her 3 dgc ( two of his & one ours). Her will reads half each to both sons.
She & I had many conversations regarding how she wanted her grandchildren to use her inheritance on property ladder/university fees.
He says it’s his word against ours & nothing we can do as she was ALIVE at the time he took it. Callous & causing added pain... trying hard to organise celebration of her life but his behaviour is causing chaos.
What can we do legally?

OP posts:
Lougle · 03/06/2019 12:05

Alsohuman

"Estate of £100k minus £30k = £70k = £35k each
Estate of £100k = £50k each

Difference is £15k

HTH"

No no no... Estate of £100 ÷2 = £50k each. Only £70k remains because BIL took £30.

That £70k is split £20k to BIL (bringing total to £50k) and £50k to OP's DH.

Lougle · 03/06/2019 12:06

Estate of £100k ÷ 2* not £100...

MerdedeBrexit · 03/06/2019 12:10

Thanks, Lougle, that was exactly what my brain thought but couldn't express in a calculation!

Whosorrynow · 03/06/2019 12:11

What a piece of work he is
his chickens will come home to roost one day

UrsulaPandress · 03/06/2019 12:18

AlsoHuman. Your figures only work if the Bil gives back £15k to his brother.

Alsohuman · 03/06/2019 12:21

Exactly. And the result is precisely the same expressed differently!

mummymeister · 03/06/2019 12:22

speaking as someone who has just spent the last 18 months trying to sort out a complicated estate with the tax man, i can categorically tell you that you lie to them at your peril! The IHT people will be all over this. dont wait until then, report this to the police now. so what if BiL doesnt like it or it upsets his kids. this is HIS doing. ALL of it.

He stole money from an estate in contravention of the will. The police can work out that he took it. and why has he done this? because he knows that everyone tip toes around him and lets him get away with it as he has done for years and years. If this is what you know about, just think about all the crap that he has caused that you dont know about. there will be mounds of it.

you need to act quickly so that when the executors (whoever they end up being) have to start form filling they can show that they acted quickly and with due dilligence when the missing money was discovered. stop worrying about your MiL. she is well out of it. you are doing this for the sake of your husband, your children and ultimately your BiL's children.

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 03/06/2019 12:38

speaking as someone who has just spent the last 18 months trying to sort out a complicated estate with the tax man, i can categorically tell you that you lie to them at your peril! The IHT people will be all over this.

IHT is only payable on larger estates worth over £325k. And even then if the rest of the family are prepared to accept that this was a gift to the son (which the OP now seems resigned to do) then it's not such a big deal. The gift is just treated as fully taxable because it was made so soon before the death.

Original poster
Apolloboy · 03/06/2019 12:47

Update...
Thank you to all of you who gave constructive advice.
Solicitor visit this morning.
BIL suspended from executor role until he acknowledges in writing that he withdrew £30k from MIL account & PROVES that SHE gave her permission. (very clever of solicitor I thought) His complete share will be withheld until he does this. He has 7 working days to put this in writing if he doesn’t then fraud police will be notified & his share ONLY will be withheld. Solicitor said he can find away to pay BIL share to his children if it can be proved he is mentally unsound!!. He is furious... his partner is communicating with solicitor & my husband. BIL bank card has mysteriously been ‘stolen’ & a hold put on his account (but only til new bank card is received)... £17k left (I truly love his partner)
HIS SHARE of the estate will be... The estate as it stands after sale of house...let’s say £100k divided into 2 and out of his half he has then to reimburse my husband £15 PLUS...YES PLUS... the value of the items he has taken from the house two days ago... we have photos of items missing in family snaps & also parents were fastidious in their keeping of receipts & accounts. (We have all accounts receipts records) Looks like we might be able to enter also the items of jewellery that he has acknowledged he took previously...as the jewellery missing also included items bought specifically by my husband & MIL would have been very unlikely to have given him permission to pawn these. Again HIS LOVELY PARTNER... his partner has gone on record with solicitor stating that she kept the pawn tickets for this jewellery as proof when SHE told my MIL of his stealing. WE NEVER KNEW THAT SHE WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD MUM.

OP posts:
Original poster
Apolloboy · 03/06/2019 12:49

£15K not £15

OP posts:
UrsulaPandress · 03/06/2019 12:49

Great update!

Apolloanddaphne · 03/06/2019 12:50

Sounds like you are right on top of things then. Your DBs partner soo DS great. Why on earth does she remain with him?

Apolloanddaphne · 03/06/2019 12:50

Sounds i mean.

Petitprince · 03/06/2019 12:50

What a nightmare. So glad it can be sorted.

Alsohuman · 03/06/2019 12:51

Your solicitor and bil’s partner are heroes! What an excellent outcome.

PonderingPanda · 03/06/2019 12:53

Why oh why is his partner still with him!

Idontwanttotalk · 03/06/2019 12:54

I think you are doing your MIL a disservice in not reporting this to the police. She may not have wanted to report his last theft to the police but would she have been so forgiving if she knew he'd done it again?

Why the heck is your DH worried about the impact on his DB"s children? That's not down to you. That is all down to their DF's behaviour. They won't learn anything good from their DF getting away with this despicable behaviour.

It's because people let your BIL get away with this that he is able to continue to do these things. If it were my BIL, I would have no hesitation in reporting it to the police as theft and/or elder abuse. I wouldn't care about his punishment because he'd damn well deserve it.

The fact that he said "prove it" makes me want to knock his block off.

Alsohuman · 03/06/2019 12:59

How on earth is this doing MiL a disservice? She’s not here any more, nothing makes any difference to her now.

Idontwanttotalk · 03/06/2019 13:04

Sorry OP but I posted before I saw your update.

Well done! You have totally done the right thing and I really hope that your BIL does get prosecuted by the police. More People need to stand up for the elderly and stop their abuse, whatever form it takes. I hope the previous theft can be taken into consideration too.

Well done to your BIL's wife for telling MIL about the first time. She needs to kick her husband into touch. She deserves better.

Original poster
Apolloboy · 03/06/2019 13:05

BIL is manipulative Her 2nd child has learning diff & he uses that to his advantage...’ mummy is kicking daddy out’ ‘mummy doesn’t care if I’m poorly’ & worse... if it wasn’t for mummy you wouldn’t be a retard’ ‘Daddy loves you here’s a Nintendo switch, ps3 game, sweets/coke any of the things he shouldn’t have.
It is so difficult/nigh on impossible to just wipe someone out of your life when children are involved. You can’t upsticks & move...mortgage in both names but only she is working, she can’t sell & then he’s 7 stone looking dreadful & sooo remorseful when he’s sober... she has school life hospitals doctors... all the things you need when you have a child with issues... & then you have the bastard who WILL & DOES shout scream manipulate isolate embarrass cajole ... who does attend drunk school/work/ neighbours/family.. Who is visible in village/town where you live. You give in because he can & has caused so much damage already. He holds them all to ransom.

OP posts:
mommybear1 · 03/06/2019 13:12

Brilliant update OP good luck Flowers

OnGoldenPond · 03/06/2019 13:13

Get him removed as executor or he will be transferring all the proceeds of the house sale to his personal bank account as soon as the sale is completed. He can voluntarily step down, tell him to do this or you will report his theft to the police.

Whosorrynow · 03/06/2019 13:16

She should let that 7 stone drop to 6 stone...5 stone
then her problems would be over

Original poster
Apolloboy · 03/06/2019 13:19

The solicitor did say that... the police would be very unlikely to prosecute although the threat is there... this move...in getting a written account from BIL is more about manipulating BIL into a position enabling the estate to be divided exactly as in MIL wishes. If he thinks his share is at risk of being withheld he is more likely to agree that the £30k was an ‘advance’ on his share. We were lucky to find out the theft happened this soon before the money has been executed.
The bit that appeals to us is the fact that the solicitor CAN find a way of bypassing paying BIL share to him & his share going directly in trust for hi# two sons... karma is a bitch

OP posts:
Alsohuman · 03/06/2019 13:20

He’s already been suspended as executor @OnGoldenPond, do keep up!

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