to think my friend's opinion is pearl clutching at its finest?!

[sabeeena]

My best friend, let's call her Laura has been single for 3 years. She is in her early 30s. She has recently downloaded Tinder as a means to meet people for casual sex, no strings attached. Laura is a very successful business woman, owns her own house, has no money worries, is very attractive etc.

Laura has always been very open about her love of casual sex and would often tell us about her one night stands.

Our other best friend, lets call her Fiona, always asks for gossip about her dating life (both single mums, so we're interested in carefree stories!!). Laura told us that she was speaking to a man on Tinder and arranging to meet with the purpose of having sex - she has done this numerous times before.

This time, Laura suggested to the man they get a hotel in the city that she lives because:

1. She doesn't want him in her house
2. She doesn't want to be stranded in a city if something goes wrong.

Fiona reacts with "i can't believe you are meeting a guy for sex in a hotel room!! it's so dangerous! it's so cheap!" etc.

Laura explains:

1. It's safer than one night stands were you go back to a guy's house and NO ONE knows where you are, you don't know where you are, and there is no one else around to get help from
2. It's safer than him coming to hers because he might not leave, or similarly harm her in some way with no one else around.
3. The whole point is that she wants to have sex, so she doesn't care what it seems like,

I wouldn't do it myself, but then I've never had a one night stand, but listening to her speak, I am inclined to agree that it is safer than a one night stand in yours or theirs house...

Fiona says it's stupid, but Laura pointed out that Fiona when we were younger got into a man's car after a night out and drove for about an hour to get to his house to have sex ... why's this LESS safe than that?!

Who is BU?

As a 31yr I agree with Safiya and Asta. However, I have always been told I'm 'old fashioned'. I'm not in the dating scene as I'm married but I truly worry about my younger siblings and children. Everything is hyper sexualized and the warnings don't get as much advertisement. To me sex means more than the physical act and I don't think a lot of young people are aware of how much toll it can have on certain people. The peer pressure on young children to lose their virginity is very high. Our children are becoming sexual at an earlier age and are expected to perform certain acts that they get pressured into.

Hotels are not as safe as they appear. There are no cctv inside the rooms, people don't tend to report concerns. There is a demand for safe place to have casual sex. If anyone want to set it up, go ahead. You can make a lot of money. Or do research on good hotels and possibly get someone to check on you from the hotel. Go to the ones that do wake up calls. Set a time and ask someone from the hotel to call.

Well I’m in my 40s now and I think you get to a point where you just don’t have energy for pointless liaisons of any kind. I mean, if I don’t see any reason to meet a man or woman for coffee in a hotel if I wasn’t going to see them again, why would I bother meeting a man for sex? Also, from my experience and many other women I know, your sex drive increases as you hit your 40s (yes), but at the time you know what you want and you don’t want to compromise. It’s must be frustrating and awkward having to communicate and repeatedly hope for the best with various strangers, whereas if you trust someone you can take it further and push the boundaries on your terms - or not. I just think sex with someone you at least you are interested in getting to know beyond that encounter, has to be far more rewarding than the alternative.

I mean, if I don’t see any reason to meet a man or woman for coffee in a hotel if I wasn’t going to see them again, why would I bother meeting a man for sex?

I tend to not equate coffee and sex

Sèe to me the difference between FWB and dating isn't based on exclusivity. To me an FWB just means that it's a casual arrangement that suits both parties. That there are no expectations etc. If I had an FWB I would be exclusive on my side, only because I wouldn't see a need for more than one! And if I met someone else I would drop the FWB. If two people just meet once a month for sex it isn't a relationship, irrespective of whether they are sleeping with other people or not. So I don't see that as the only definition. That aside, when I say respectful I mean can you call him if you fancy seeing him or is it all on his terms? Does he make sure your enjoying the sex or is he only concerned with his pleasure? Is he actually a friend that you could call if you just fancied a chat? I'm not asking you to answer any of those by the way! Just that these are the sorts of things i would expect from an FWB. I don't know, may be I have it all wrong and that isn't what an FWB is. But to me personally, anything less than that and I would just feel used. It wouldn't feel good at all.

That aside, when I say respectful I mean can you call him if you fancy seeing him or is it all on his terms? Does he make sure your enjoying the sex or is he only concerned with his pleasure? Is he actually a friend that you could call if you just fancied a chat?

Yes to all three.

But if he ever suggested he wanted anything more it would be done in less than half a second.

I think it basically comes down to the fact that there are women who see relationship sex as okay but having sex outside of a relationship as really not okay and a bit mucky as someone said and cheap.

I obviously don't agree. Relationships are far too much like hard work so I won't ever have one. Does this mean I never get to have sex?!

Number3or4
It's good to hear this from someone younger! Even if you have been called old fashioned! I think all we can do ultimately is to educate our children. The sex education I had as a teen was woefully inadequate even back then. In the modern world it's useless. I have always encouraged my DC to talk to me about anything. Sometimes I think I have made them overshare, my D'S told me over Skype the other day about his piles
But over time I have covered things like porn and not giving into pressure etc. My DD is very open with me and she has asked my advice over lots of things. It's a scary world out there in so many ways but if your D.C. know they can come to you to talk about any issues then that's really all you can do.

Then that's what I mean Jaques. In my opinion he is respectful of you and if I met a guy who ticked those boxes I would not be averse to that kind of set up either. I definitely don't want a relationship! But I just haven't met anyone who matches up to that.

You would have to be relatively unfussy about whom you have sex with, or an extremely visual person, to arrange a sexual encounter with someone you had not met at all in real life. To me, the person would have to smell, sound and feel right, too, and unless they genuinely created a sense of strong desire in me before we got as far as the bedroom, I would not want to perservere with trying to have sex with them in the hope that if I closed my eyes and imagined someone else and/or they were unusually talented at working out how to turn me on from an unpromising start, I might enjoy it. I'm also not sure I would feel confident with the reaction of someone who had arranged to have sex with me and nothing else if I announced I had changed my mind because they didn't do anything for me after all! To me, therefore, such an arrangement would feel extremely sordid and transactional - a deal made you would feel a lot of pressure not to renege on, however much you regretted it in retrospect. That's not saying that other people are not highly sexed enough to be happy shagging all sorts and hugely enjoying the physical sensations regardless, it's just understandable that what might be pleasurable to some is a bit revolting and unnecessarily dangerous in the minds of others. Your perception of acceptable risk, after all, is quite strongly affected by the degree of pleasure you think you might receive from the activity and whether or not you have much concern about the perceptions and feelings of the person you are engaging in that activity with.

Yes I agree Walk. Also, if you are a woman who is a survivor of sexual abuse or rape, I think it’s very difficult to put yourself in that kind of situation or to treat sex as casual, (unless you’re trying to prove something to yourself in which case you’re repeating the negative cycle).

Some people find the idea of sex with strangers exciting and a turn-on of itself. So they're not starting off from the same mindset that some are expressing here. For them, it's not a case of having to work up an interest, they're already there.

It's apples and oranges, innit. Takes all sorts.

Well of course, category12 - for some people, sex is more about a situation in their mind than the person in front of them. Being excited about sex with a stranger is about a fantasy. You don't care about the person and they don't care about you. Some of us cannot sustain the fantasy when confronted by a real person and thus find the reality sordid, prefering to keep it in our heads where the fantasy person behaves and thinks as we want them to, rather than trying to act it out with someone who is only too real and not playing to your fantasy expectations. It does indeed take all sorts.

I agreed to meet strangers for NSA sex a lot when I split up with my husband. I thought at the time it was 'empowering'. Then one night I invited the wrong guy back to mine. He penetrated me anally without consent. I was quite shaken up about it afterwards and my MH was suffering. I went to see a GP about it all and she basically said 'if you behave like that what do you expect?' Worse still, she works for the same practice I now work out, though I didn't know that when I took the job.

There's nothing wrong with one night stands, but don't think it's a risk-free venture.

Who cares? They are both grown ass women who can do as they please.

I'm inclined to think each to their own - there will always be Fiona's that judge and Laura's who like to live life by their own rules...I'm not so keen on spending time with the FIona types.

formerbabe I recognise your username, I don’t think anyone should listen to what you have to say. You are the type of woman that expects a man to buy dinner on the first date and won’t accept anything else. I’m not sure why a woman going after her own wants is somehow shifted to blaming the man for not having to work for it. Are you serious?

formerbabe Also the men you are describing are incels. Trust me, they are not getting any sex. They are way too creepy and talk like little girls so they don’t get beyond the first message.

@Aaarrgghh

Your post about me is quite strange.

You are the type of woman that expects a man to buy dinner on the first date and won’t accept anything else

No...I discussed my feelings about this on the relevant thread. I can't be bothered to go over it again. Some people agreed with me, some didn't. I wasn't a lone voice.

Back to this thread...I already said there's nothing wrong with casual sex between two consenting adults.

It beggars belief though that people arrange to meet total strangers in hotels for the sole purpose of sex.

And you have the cheek to use this phrase about me 'You are the type of woman'.

I'll finish that sentence for you in relation to this particular thread.

I'm the type of woman who, in my single days, expected a man to have a face to face conversation with me before anything else happened.

Hth.

One night stands with strangers are inherently more risky than getting to know someone more slowly over time. So Fiona isn’t wrong in pointing out the risk.

If Laura wants to take that risk, however, it’s up to her.

They’re both entitled to have opinions about the morality of the subject, but openly judging your friend is a pretty hard dynamic to maintain a friendship through.

I think you should stay well out of it though. It never ends well for the one in the middle!

No formerbabe on another thread you said that a man that doesn’t pay for your meal and wine and dine you, isn’t worthy of your time. You expect men to always foot the bill and won’t accept anything else. That’s wrong and you do not get to judge someone else for not wanting the meal and enjoying sex instead.

You expect men to always foot the bill and won’t accept anything else

No I really didn't say that and considering I haven't been on a date for over 15 years, would be a little silly too. Don't misquote me.

I'm the type of woman who, in my single days, expected a man to have a face to face conversation with me before anything else happened

So the superior type

Whole situation sounds really precarious. Where the hell have they been before. Makes me feel really itchy all over just thinking about it. What’s wrong with normal dating sites if they really need to do something like that? At least there is a chance to assess the other person rightly or wrongly.

Not superior at all...just very at someone using the phrase "you're the type of woman" at me.

Jacques - how can wanting to have a face-to-face conversation with a man before you think about sex, possibly be construed as “superior?”

I swear to god, MN is another planet.

Plus, it’s bad form to bring up comments people may have made in other threads. Not sure what the agenda is there.