to think my friend's opinion is pearl clutching at its finest?!

[sabeeena]

My best friend, let's call her Laura has been single for 3 years. She is in her early 30s. She has recently downloaded Tinder as a means to meet people for casual sex, no strings attached. Laura is a very successful business woman, owns her own house, has no money worries, is very attractive etc.

Laura has always been very open about her love of casual sex and would often tell us about her one night stands.

Our other best friend, lets call her Fiona, always asks for gossip about her dating life (both single mums, so we're interested in carefree stories!!). Laura told us that she was speaking to a man on Tinder and arranging to meet with the purpose of having sex - she has done this numerous times before.

This time, Laura suggested to the man they get a hotel in the city that she lives because:

1. She doesn't want him in her house
2. She doesn't want to be stranded in a city if something goes wrong.

Fiona reacts with "i can't believe you are meeting a guy for sex in a hotel room!! it's so dangerous! it's so cheap!" etc.

Laura explains:

1. It's safer than one night stands were you go back to a guy's house and NO ONE knows where you are, you don't know where you are, and there is no one else around to get help from
2. It's safer than him coming to hers because he might not leave, or similarly harm her in some way with no one else around.
3. The whole point is that she wants to have sex, so she doesn't care what it seems like,

I wouldn't do it myself, but then I've never had a one night stand, but listening to her speak, I am inclined to agree that it is safer than a one night stand in yours or theirs house...

Fiona says it's stupid, but Laura pointed out that Fiona when we were younger got into a man's car after a night out and drove for about an hour to get to his house to have sex ... why's this LESS safe than that?!

Who is BU?

I bet Laura never asks the men she's shagging if they are married or have someone at home waiting for them

If they are going to 'get serviced' by Laura, they're hardly going to tell her if they're married are they🙄.

How have you turned consenting adults meeting for sex, into Laura being a bad person for 'servicing' married men.

Oh how low the world has sunk.

Risky perhaps, but no immoral.

If all involved are consenting adults then they should fill their boots (if that is their thing).

It isn't on "Laura" to police anyone else's relationship.

Fiona is being unreasonable. Laura is correct re safety if she tells someone where she is going but Fiona saying it's cheap is next level BU. It's unnecessary, judgemental and unkind and I'd be letting that friendship sail if I was Laura.

Laura and Fiona are both free to do whatever they think is appropriate. They are also both free to judge ever other if they really want to. I wouldn't worry too much about other people's sex lives but I think some people can't help themselves.

There is no right or wrong, I would say.

I have no issue from a moral POV - and PPs saying about men no longer having to wine and dine women I agree is a hugely dated and sexist concept ; that maybe what you want but it's not what every woman wants and clearly not what Laura wants. However, from a safety POV it's not foolproof. Google Karl Langdell and Katie Locke as an example. Such encounters are never without risk.

Not really"pearl clutching at its finest". A rather click bait-y op but, hey, I read it so, job done.

I think going to a hotel would give false sense of security too. Fiona has a right to have her own opinion and to be worried about her freind. She could have phrased it better though.

I personally wouldn't do this as the chance of conviction would be very low in case the man decides to do what he wants. Afterall, he would have very strong evidence of planned and consentual intercourse. So what is stopping him from only doing what he wants, taking things to a level only he is comfortable with. How would anyone prove they wanted to stop half way though as things got to much? What if nobody hears the screams? Has your freind agreed on a safe word and reiterated it with the man before going ahead?

@sabeena

Yes it was a hotel and yes he was caught

I don't think it's appropriate to be moralistic about a friend's sex life but I don't think that this would be particularly safe. I think I would be worried about their safety if this was my friend. Is she meeting the man somewhere else beforehand to see if she likes him before they go to the hotel?

I personally wouldn't do this as the chance of conviction would be very low in case the man decides to do what he wants. Afterall, he would have very strong evidence of planned and consentual intercourse

Exactly.

In this scenario, if it came to a rape trial, unless the attacker had inflicted some significant physical injuries, he will get away with it - 100%.

You can't live your life according to what rapists will use to try to get away with it. Christ, if we did that no woman would ever wear a thong www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46207304 , go to sleep beside their partner, ever get drunk, etc.

There is nothing wrong either with being cautious and balancing risks. Saying something feels to risky for my liking and personally avoiding it, is fine to. I'm not imposing my view or belittling other people's views points.

I just read the link you posted category12 and I find that ruling abhorrent.

It’s a shame Fiona tried to dress up her judgement as concern for her friend.

People who do this do tend to have to tell everybody about it dont they. I often wonder who they are really doing it for.

Any time I''ve done something like that its been completely soulless with me just wanting to go home.

No wonder there’s so many gormless wonders in society today. Men no longer have to make any effort with women whatsoever. The women are even delighted to book the hotels for them, while these gifts of men lie in bed or whatever on Tinder. Sounds totally crap to me.

If this makes me a “pearl clutcher” well, bring on the pearls!

Sounds totally crap to me

Great, so don’t do it.

But please don’t put the behaviour of men on other women, yeah? Not our responsibility.

No wonder there’s so many gormless wonders in society today. Men no longer have to make any effort with women whatsoever. The women are even delighted to book the hotels for them, while these gifts of men lie in bed or whatever on Tinder. Sounds totally crap to me

Agree. I have no issue with casual sex...but this must be brilliant for the 'gormless wonders' (brilliant description btw) who like I said don't even need the chutzpah to chat up a woman! Anyway, surely even with casual sex, there needs to be chemistry and a bit of a spark...it's not purely just mechanical.

Men’s behaviour is what it is, but you don’t have to pander to it or facilitate it. It’s sad that so many women think this is “liberated” when it’s really anything but.

i can assure you I am not a man... if you have concerns please report the thread - I have name changed - but I have previous threads over a long period of time which MN can verify.

Men’s behaviour is what it is, but you don’t have to pander to it or facilitate it. It’s sad that so many women think this is “liberated” when it’s really anything but

So I want casual sex. I shouldn’t be doing that because it’s facilitating men to have casual sex...?

There is literally NO behaviour a man will display that is not laid at the door of women.

But there's a difference between casual sex and some gormless wonder (my new favourite phrase) scratching his arse on his sofa whilst swiping right and literally having women and sex on tap without having to make any effort at all. I bet some of these chumps don't even have the balls to spark up a conversation with a woman. I wouldn't want to go near some of the loser types I hear about nowadays.

But there's a difference between casual sex and some gormless wonder (my new favourite phrase) scratching his arse on his sofa whilst swiping right and literally having women and sex on tap without having to make any effort at all. I bet some of these chumps don't even have the balls to spark up a conversation with a woman. I wouldn't want to go near some of the loser types I hear about nowadays

Yeah none of that behaviour is the fault of women.