Should I pay CM for him?

[MintyPickle]

Name changed as outing and sensitive.

I’ve been with OH for 6 years, not married but bought a house together. When I met him he’d just got divorced, he has 3 kids (eldest in 20’s, middle now 17, youngest now 11).

He earns less than me (me £100k pa him £80k pa) We have separate accounts for personal things, I have savings, he doesn’t but we both pay into a joint account to cover mortgage, bills, groceries etc. As he earns less than me and pays £1000 per month child maintenance for younger two out of his personal account (above CMS recommended amount but manageable) it works out that for him to be left with some disposable income after maintenance, car loan etc he pays £1000 each month into the joint account whereas I pay £3000.

I’ve been ok with this arrangement until now but unfortunately he has just been made redundant. I have no problem supporting him until he gets another job, but by the time I have added his £1k on top of my £3k into the joint account, we are left with very little disposable income. Again, ok, I am happy to tighten our belts. But the issue is he expects me to also pay the £1k to his ex for child maintenance. I can’t do this without dipping into my savings.

The issue I have is that his ex does not work and has previously refused to look for a job, so if I don’t pay, this could well impact the kids. We have them 2 nights a week then they are at their mums 5 nights. However I am struggling with the idea of paying my savings to a woman who has done her best to make my life hell for the last few years. I was not the OW and was not even in the UK when they split up but she has badmouthed me to anyone who will listen, including the kids. Aibu to expect her to get a job rather than me spend my savings? I know he has a financial responsibility but he has paid maintenance consistently, at a good rate and has lost his job. If I wasn’t on the scene he’d have to stop paying so why should I pay?

Surely he should only be paying for 2 of his children now
She says in op that it's for the younger 2.

Op cop on, he's been having a laugh the past 6 year with you subbing him. Where the hell is all his money gone? We earn way less than you both yet manage to save. Is he gambling, a shopaholic? It doesn't make sense that he has no savings - but maybe he's just telling you that. How dare he even suggest that you pay his CM. He needs to go through cms now and his ex will have to adjust her ways. TBH I'd be considering what future you can share with a guy who has completely taken advantage of your finances for so long.

Why don't you loan him 5k and get him to agree a new maintenance amount with his wife. He needs to pay you back the 5k though when he is working again. Make sure he looks for work and doesn't become a dependent on you !

How the hell does he have no savings when he earns £80k pa?!

No, you shouldn’t be paying the maintenance, you have been generous enough already. His choice to have three kids, he should be having less disposable income.

ZippyBungle

I grew up in an era of a 50/50 split. The amount you earned made zero difference to how much you contributed. You paid your way and that was that. So is this a thing now? Genuine question as I think I would be pissed off if my ds or dd we're subsidising their dp's on that premise. AIW?

Like everyone else says, you should NOT in a million years be paying his child support.

Further, your division of household bills of you paying £3k and him £1k is very unfair. If you earn £100k and he £80k (say, if he gets another job paying what his last one did), the contribution to the household should either be 50:50/£2k each (that's what I would suggest) given that they are broadly similar salaries and more than enough for each of you to contribute plus have money left over, and most of all, he presumably consumes 50% of the bills as do you; or if you're bending over backwards for him (why?) then 100:80 or 5:4 (roughly 56%:44%), in which case given the £4k monthly bills, you would contribute in the region of £2,222 and he £1,778.

Of his c£4,500 monthly income, he would then have either £2,500 or £2,722 left over to pay his £1k child support out of (his, and only his, responsibility) and still have £1,500 or £1,722 disposable left over entirely for his own purposes (eg to put into savings!).

With him having such an eye-wateringly high salary, I'm gobsmacked a) that he has been expecting you to subsidise him all this time; b) that he has chosen not to build up any savings; and c) that he is now expecting you to pay his ex maintenance for his children. Many many red flags here, OP. I think I'd run for the hills.

Make sure he looks for work and doesn't become a dependent on you

This!

Is he looking now? Is he likely to find a job paying a similar amount to his last one? You say he’s been in this job less than 2 years-what has his previous job history been like?

Even on £20,000 a year and paying all the bills, I managed to have savings. What on earth has he been doing with his money?

Do not subsidise him, his children are not your responsibility, he and their mother need to sort themselves out.

If you continue bail him out, he'll continue to be irresponsible and you'll end up very resentful.

NFW! I wouldn't loan him a bean, either. Sounds like he's feckless with money so do not get involved in mingling yours with him.

Op I think some difficult conversations need to be had*

This

HIS children are not your financial responsibility. End of.

Your DP's child maintenance payments are the responsibility of your DP and his ex. If he has lost his job it is not up to you to pay them just because you have a good level of disposable income. That is your money.

It would be interesting to know who suggested how your household bills are split. Some say your DP saw you coming (I'm inclined to agree either way) but did you suggest this as you don't seem to think it is a problem?

You bought a house together so I presume the mortgage is in both names.

I hope you have a legal contract to reflect any money you had prior to this that contributed to the deposit in case you split.

I know it's up to you how you arrange your finances but if the household costs £4k to run every month then you should contribute to the mortgage in accordance with the proportion of the property you hold. eg 50/50 or 40/60 and the household bills should be split 50/50.

There is no reason to split bills based on proportionate income because, effectively, you are just sharing a house. You are not married. Would, for example, 2 people who are just friends who are sharing a house expect to pay proportionately to their income? I don't think so.

Your DP's car is his asset and should be paid from his disposable income. If this is on a loan and he can't afford the loan due to no income then he should sell it and pay off the loan.

His child maintenance payments should come out of his disposable income. If he has no income he will have to stop paying and discuss this with his ex. He needs to get a job asap, possibly interim work, in order to at least contribute partially towards his responsibilities.

I think you need to reconsider your financial relationship with your DP. He is BVU to expect you to pay his child maintenance. He is taking advantage of you financially, irrespective of who suggested how finances are split. Surely he recognises the unfairness of it?

If your DP is a spender and you are a saver this could cause problems in your relationship.

If he does spend his £2.5k disposable income each month then what are his expectations going to be while he is out of work? Will he expect you to give him pocket money? How much would he expect if he usually spends at that level?

How is your relationship otherwise OP - is it one of equals in a loving, respectful relationship? If so then you will hopefully be able to work through this problem, sort out a better future financial relationship and just move forward. If not, then this has highlighted a few issues that may mean you should call time on the whole relationship.

Certainly not, let her get a job as the 'children' are so old, she's been taking him for a ride for long enough. If you have them 2/7 of the week then she should be paying him 2/7 of the agreed amount. She's typical of a lot of lazy women for whom an ex is a meal-ticket for life.

Your DP's child maintenance payments are the responsibility of your DP and his ex. If he has lost his job it is not up to you to pay them just because you have a good level of disposable income. That is your money.

A very good reason for not marrying a man with child responsibilities, a wife's earnings should not be part of any payment either, why should she be responsible for someone else's children?

Off-topic but what are his pension arrangements?

Will you be keeping him off your savings when you both stop working?

Idontwanttotalk speaks a lot of sense

if he does spend his £2.5k disposable income each month then what are his expectations going to be while he is out of work? Will he expect you to give him pocket money? How much would he expect if he usually spends at that level?

This definitely needs addressing as well.

Honestly OP, I would be having a very hard think.
Does he really love and care for you or are you a really handy cash cow!

How quickly can he get a new job.
He obviously is totally relying on you to save him.
I just wouldn't be having someone use me like he is.
The cheek of him to think you'll pay his ex to be at home. Wtf.

Exactly how much are you subsidising him to the tune of every year?
Sounds like thousands.

Sorry but wtf!
Protect yourself.
He's protecting his ex and children off the back of your hard work.

Surely, OP can help for a month or 2!

Or, the mother could get a job?

You and his Ex have already been subsidising his personal spending for several years -his CM may be generous in comparison with what other men pay, but I'm sure the mother of his children isn't living the life of Riley if she's maintaining a household and bringing up the children on £1000 a month. Your Ex has still had a very high income and made a much smaller contribution to the household.

I don't think it'd be wise to use up your savings to pay his CM costs, given the unpredictable financial outlook- he needs to sell his car so he can pay in the short term, use up any savings he has, and in the meantime he might need to take a lower-paying job to keep going.

One issue with insisting that all CM payments come from you, not the household, is that he isn't going to be eligible for any benefits due to household income- if he has no income at all, this impacts his children. However, if you pay out of your savings, neither of the parents is contributing to the children's up keep, and it puts you in a vulnerable position. One way forward would be for your partner to sell any valuable items he has (car, bike, watch ? All that money must have gone somewhere!) and then as a household to cut back on spending as much as possible, with things like food costs/ eating out. If he's not working and not doing child care, he'll obviously be applying for jobs but should have more time than when he was working FT, so if you have a cleaner (for example) he can take over, to cut costs.

I’m sorry you are in this situation.

I have two step sons that my partner pays maintenance ( although far less then 1k a month) for and once when he was injured he couldn’t pay so I agreed to pay half of it for one month so that they didn’t suffer too much and he paid me back when we was able to work again.

To say the mother wasn’t pleased was an understatement. But I simply told her that she was lucky to be getting that and and she wasn’t entitled to a penny as he wasn’t earning anything and that stopped the griping to an extent.

In your situation I definitely would not be paying the full 1k tbh I wouldn’t even be paying half but to send £300ish if you can afford it and make sure it’s clear that she knows it’s from you not him and that’s it’s only Going to happen once or twice or whatever.

Also your partner will have to get a job even if it’s minimum wage while he looks for something else as soon as possible so that he can contribute something to his kids as really that isn’t your place to pay for them and it’s ridiculous that he has asked you too but I can also see why he has.

I also think offering to have the kids more is a nice compromise.

You seem to have taken having 2.5K spending money as your starting point when divvying up expenses. Surely the child support should come first?
So, from his 4.5k income, take 1000 off for child support, 2000 off for bills (or maybe 80% of the total, if he had a lower income), then he keeps whatever is left, (1500, which is still a hell of a lot) and hopefully puts some of it away to save.
But that's kind of immaterial if he's lost his job now. It if he gets another similar-level one, it's worth reconfiguring.

What isn’t clear from this is how long the OH is expecting to be out of work. If he is in a very high demand job where he can be pretty certain he will get a new job within a few weeks then I think that is quite different to not knowing whether he will be able to get another job at a similar level or when.

Or, the mother could get a job?

She’ll only get CM for one of them in a year so she’s hopefully thinking about her options around now anyway. But it’s nothing to do with OP, who owes her nothing.

To those who are suggesting that he sells his expensive car, that may not generate much income. If he has it on a lease plan, there will be penalties to return it early and all he would find is himself without a car at all (but free of the monthly payments).
If he bought it outright from new and is servicing some kind of loan on it, then he would have to factor in the depreciation of a new car once it is sold second hand. It could be that he owes more on it than it's currently worth; negative equity, if you like.

I would say cover the next payment and no more. He is not going to be able to pay with 0 income, but paying one month more means she's got time to sort out what she is going to do with the shortfall.

You also need to know exactly what he has been spending his money on!

Not your business, not your responsibility, and his ex working/not working has nothing to do with this, your DP still has to pay CM regardless.